to think that when a child is excluded twice from 2 different schools...

[Bogeyface]

....then it probably isnt the schools at fault?

Just seen a woman I vaguely know, she is the mother of someone DD was at primary school with. We usually say hello and I learnt years ago never to say "How are you" unless I have a spare half an hour! However, today I forgot and got a full tirade about how she is moving her dd to yet another senior school (her 4th) because of how shit they are. It transpires that she was moved from the first (the same one that DD attends) because she was being picked on by the pupils and the teachers. The second one she was temporarily then permanently excluded from, and has been temporarily excluded from the third. She has, according to the mother, been victimised at every school she has been in and it is the fault of the primary school for giving a bad report of her to the first senior school so everyone else has assumed the worst of her since then.

Now I know that children do sometimes suffer victimisation in schools, but really? Three schools (and the primary I guess)?!

I was very tempted to tell her that actually it was her DD that was the bully, and that she wasnt doing her dd any favours at all by refusing to accept her crappy behaviour. WIBU to totally avoid her from now on? My own DD was a victim of this girls bullying (a fact that the mother was told about at the time but seems to have forgotten) and I am getting very fecked off at her insistence that her DD is a poor misunderstood girl who is picked on by every in the education system.

YANBU, avoid. Parents like this are a school's nightmare.

The trouble is that these things snowball, and that a failure somewhere early on to address social or emotional issues can cause a situation that just carries on to the next place.

But yes, if her child is bullying, she needs to face it.

Should she and her attitude be reported to Social Services?

YABU not to give in to temptation!

Clearly something is going on though.

If you are going to totally avoid her from now on, then perhaps you have nothing to lose from telling her that her dd was bullying yours, and reminding her that she knew about it at the time.

You should have told her the truth, she probably genuinely believes in her dd's victimhood because nobody has challenged her perception. What would her response have been to being told that her daughter bullied yours? Why weren't you honest?..

The schools should be helping this girl, rather than just getting rid, which obviously isn't working.

It is very difficult for parents in some areas to get help, but in cases such as this girl's the school second school could have accessed it, in fact on exclusion the LEA, should have been looking at the issues and put a plan in place.

My DD was excluded twice, because of anger issues over her dad's death, her reputation went with her to the second school and because it was a Looked After Child that was picking on her, of course, my DD was the one to go.

I got the LEA to do what they are supposed to, in my DD's case, but only because i know the law and the system and was friends with the Local Education Welfare Officer.

If you haven't got any supportive advice to offer the mother, or cannot tell her the truth, then aviod, it is pointless for both of you to talk.

It sounds like the girl has special needs that aren't being addressed. She is clearly not coping with mainstream education for whatever reason. Unless this girl gets help with her social skills she will struggle in adult life.

Its very sad that EBD special schools are being closed up and down the country.

it makes me wonder if her behaviour has something to do with what is going on at home, tbh. i'd stay well clear

Agree with really tired

ReallyTired, special needs - that's a bit of an assumption surely? More likely her mother is a poor example that the daughter is following.

children with special needs are 8 times more likely to be excluded than neuro-typical children. So assuming SN is plausible.

I too would agree that there is something mor egoing on for this girl, be it at home or school or both.

Staying well clear really isn't going to help her at all though is it? If you can tell this lady the truth then i do think that would be better. She may not really want to hear it, but if it helps her to help her daughter then it will be worth it IMO.

Behaviour always happens for a reason, even if that reason isn't clear at the time.

Sorry your daughter suffered at her hands and hope she is ok now. I do feel sad for the lady's girl too though.....she is obviuosly a very unhappy young woman.

More likely her mother is a poor example that the daughter is following

Ah yes because whatever life is throwing at the family cannot have an effect, it is all the fault of the mother .

OP hasn't mentioned a dad/siblings, so we spectulation on what is the cause doesn't really matter, the point is that the LEA is doing nothing for this girl.

"ReallyTired, special needs - that's a bit of an assumption surely? More likely her mother is a poor example that the daughter is following."

I think that my suggestion that the girl has emotional/ behaviour difficulites is less unreasonable than blaming the mother. Anyway EBD is a recongised special need. There could be all kinds of reasons why a child has poor social skills which have nothing to do with parenting. Frankly I think its best to leave such speculation to the Ed Pych who has actually met the child and teachers.

At least two schools have failed to manage this girl's behaviour. Exclusions (especially permament exclusion) should only be a last restort. I imagine that the LEA behaviour support team has assessed the girl and given advice.

Clearly the girl is not coping with the expectations of mainstream school and that in itself is a special need. Children aren't evil.

What ReallyTired says....:)