To ask why you think attendance does form part of ofsted assessments?

[bejeezus]

reoccurring thread theme on MNs- how ridiculous the attendance policy is for schools

lots of people in favour of taking kids out during term time for various reasons, off the top of my head;

1. affordable holidays etc as family time and other life enhancing experiences are as important as formal education
2. couple of weeks out of a year wont affect childs education
3. too much focus on attendance, it shouldnt form part of ofsted performance criteria
4. Teachers/ schools should be able to use there judgement to allow the more able/diligent children/families to take time off
5. Parents should make that decision for their own children/ not the schools or LAs place to do so- 'nanny state'

My take on this is that;

I agree, a weeks holiday here and there may very well not affect a childs education. And that family time and other experiences are important and valuable

BUT

attendance forms part of ofsteds performance criteria because it IS important. It affects a schools performance and so it affects your childs eductaion. The effect of a child being out of teh classroom may not affect that childs education, but it very wll may have a knock on effect on other children in the class, probably the less academically able. If every parent took their children on holiday during term time then the teacher would be unable to teach effectively as she would always be facilitating catch up; therefore the children wouldnt reach the standards that they should

the reason these 'nanny state' rules evolve is because people put their own self-interests above all else, and this is to protect the masses

I wouldn't take my children out of school in term time. Their education is more important than that. But my DS had a week off with the flu and he watched his percentage attendance go from 98% to 93% in five days. He was really upset about it, but he really couldn't have gone in.

There didn't seem to be any catching up other than being given the homework he had missed the next week so he had 2 lots to do in a week.

For people that say 'its only a week', I'd like to ask them how they'd think if a teacher took a week off in term time? Oh...but no doubt that would be different!

OK - at primary level I don't remember EVER being confused / lost by a week off school, either because of sickness or summer holidays. Maths was generally done by working through a book which everyone did at different levels anyway, as was reading. The teachers did not have to facilitate "catch-up", they just carried on as they were.

I think it puts too much pressure on the wrong sort of parents / children. Like most league-table stuff, the low-hanging fruit (parents who are conscientious) are badgered because it's easier than tackling the real problem - which is persistent truants.

Personally, I think children should be able to have one week of agreed absence a year. Because I really do think that family time / travel is as important as primary level education.

I think there's a difference between 'non-attendance' and persistant truancy - but where do you draw the line? I'm pretty sure Ofsted looks at attendance because a school with high, persistant levels of truancy would be failing on many levels. Getting your child to school is a legal requirement of parents in the UK - but many parents don't manage this because of problems/chaotic lifestyles. And of course it can also be a huge red flag in abuse/neglect cases.

Through that lens, a week off for a family holiday doesn't seem so much of an issue, but schools, councils and Ofsted don't have the resources to trawl through records to work out why a kid is off.

I come from a family of teachers - I value education - my kids are very bright and able ...I take them out for at least a week each year - for a holiday

It makes it affordable for me as a lone parent and given they are top of their mixed ability classes I don't think it will harm them

sadly one of them had dysentry earlier in the year and was off for almost 3 weeks so her attendance is shocking - shoot me !

thanks for trying to edumacate me though

BUT Josie do you think it is possible that other children are affected by a childs absence?

so eg. if the teacher was able to use descretion and allow the 'low hanging fruit' out of the classroom- do you think whilst the teacher spends time ensuring they are understanding what they have missed- the less academically able, who really need support, are being denied that-because the cleverer kids have been on a fabulous holiday?

they get 13 weeks a year for travel/family time though - and weekends- and I think you are allowed a certain amount of authorised absence with valid reason (you are in our school- we've been authorised for family wedding)

why did you start this thread when there is already one the same that you have been commenting on and people have already given their arguments to your opinion?

sometimes self interests matter for very complex reasons...our lives do not revolve around ofsted.
as a parent i wouldn't expect the teacher to facilitate catch up..they can give me the topics and i'll cover it myself thanks

Out headteacher said that OFSTED looks so poorly on poor attendance because it is seen as a sign that kids do not enjoy being at school. However, at our school, the slightly below average attendance figures is mainly due to the high percentage of wealthy families who take their kids skiing during term time.

and gordy same question really- I am not disputig that parents can judge whether their own kids will be disadvantaged by time off - but isnt it too disruptive to other kids.
If it had no affect on school performance, ofsted wouldnt asess it

and 'school performance'= childrens learning

people talk as if 'school performance' isnt in line with the interest of teh children at the school

But that's what I mean... I don't remember when I had time off school sick / for holidays the teacher ever changing the pace on my behalf. Lessons just continued.

blubbery that thread has come to the end of its life- this point wasnt addressed by the thread- I asked it at the end, got no responses

It is not compulsary that you contribute here, if you feel it is superfluous

josie i dont think that is true any more? I think a teacher would be spending time with a child that has been absent?

why do you think ofsted have attendance as an assessment criteria, if it doesnt affect performance? (not narky, genuine question)

Because english people love rules, no matter how daft they are?

Why should it make any difference to any other children if mine is off for a week? They missed their 7 times tables and a story about easter, boo bloody hoo. The teacher doesn't disrupt the rest of the class to repeat it for my child, why on earth would they do that? I took them out of school, its my job to catch them up.
No disruption, no problem, no need for your endless rules.

sometimes self interests matter for very complex reasons..

this is true, but you cannot expect a whole class of other peoples kids to be affected by them

(whether they are affected and to what extent, I think is what is in debate)

By asking a teacher to give you the topics then you are expecting th em to facilitate catch up. They can't just pluck it out if thin air. And not all parents will make the effort to cover work missed, but the teacher will still have the obligation to make sure that every child reaches the right standard.

I agree that attendance should make up part of an OFSTED report. If a school has a particularly bad attendance record, that would suggest to me that a number of the parents are unengaged with their children's education and do not value their time in school very highly. That would have an effect in the classroom, and I don't want my children to have peers who don't value education. It would also suggest that the teachers would be unable to cover the amount of work they could over because they will constantly be trying to ensure that they are ensuring children do not miss anything important. They can't just not bother to teach fractions to one child because that childs parents chose to go on a cheaper holiday on the week they started learning fractions. So it does have an impact on the rest of the class. A good teacher should be able to cope without too much problem when a few children are ill here and there, because its inevitable that children will have to be off school sometimes. But to expect them to have to make extra effort out of convenience for the parents is wrong. Which is why holidays in term time should only be authorised in extreme circumstances.

Because persistent truancy - and high levels of truancy generally throughout a school - is the reason 20% of 16 year olds are functionally illiterate. That's what they're going after. Not Jocasta's week in Barbados.

And if the teacher is giving each returner one-plus-one time to catch them back up, then the simplest thing - for the sake of the whole class - would be not to do that.

My husband is from a country/culture where school attendance is very disrupted- it definitely affects the childrens education acheivement/levels

no ofsted there- in fact, no rules around attendance at all

DD1 has severe chronic asthma, and when I wanted her to go part time at the suggestion of her consultant, was told that it would adversely affect the school's attendance percentage, and wouldn't be fair on children who didn't get into over subscribed school who would be able to go full time

Fortunately this didn't come from the head teacher, but gives an idea of how the attendance band wagon can get mis interpreted.

I don't have a problem with Ofsted and schools highlighting good attendance.

What I do have a problem with is when Ofsted, LEAs and schools make NO differentiation between illness and other absences, leading to children with chronic medical conditions never getting attendance certificates and the parents of children who have been in hospital for an operation being chased by letters about their attendance percentage by the LEA.

If my childs education is being affected by another childs absence- I am no more happy, if it is Jocasta in Barbados or Johnny in town on a bench. In fact, I am likely to be more sympathetic of Johnnys situation than Jocasta

Josie in our school- it is the holidays that did cause a problem; Very high percentage of immigrant families (1st 2nd and 3rd generation) - lots of relatives abroad/ long haul

as is true of all the schools in our area

Where I live many kids have grandparents abroad. It is unaffordable for the whole family to fly after end of term, and is not cost effective to spend all that money for one week, so many take extended, unauthorised holidays that overlap term time and holidays.

Personally I have yet to do this, but I feel if I do the benefits of my children being able to see their family, the country of their grandparents, cousins etc and having memories of that, and also my dad having memories of them is more important then 2 weeks in school. So do many others. Which is why I know a few people who take their kids out anyway, and have had their children removed from the school register. But they would still do the same again. Is this alternative more helpful to Tue child's education and the education of children in the class they join at New school? Neither had a problem getting another school place, one even had a more local place.

The first child got de enrolled in yr 1 now in yr 5 just took the last 2 weeks of school again to go to Pakistan via umrah. Maybe she will loose her place again?

Loosing a school place is not a deterrent for some people. Neither is fines, as fines still work out cheaper then holiday in summer break.

And what is the purpose of kids having topics at school about their family, their cultures, home country, family tree etc, when they are denied the ability to experience these things in reality.

My eldest has her education disrupted by other kids all the time - she is even extected to help teach them so I don't really think her missing a week - just before a 1 week holiday, will do any lasting damage to other kids no!

Why no distinction between authorised/unauthorised absence? It's as though ofsted don't care about the reasons, don't care about the individual, are just a vast bureaucratic monolith unable to distinguish between those with chronic illness and those who truant a lot