unauthorised holiday ...so cross

[lostlilly]

5 days I requested, I finished my degree last year and we havent had a holiday for 5 years!!! my dd is SO excited about going on a plane she burst into tears when I got the letter saying unauthorised. It states her attendance is 100% but it is unauthorised. I am really cross, we have to pay a fixed penalty, as if anyone can afford that at the moment!

Sorry Blubbery but why should a teacher or sub teacher use their legimate holiday to educate a child who has not been in school during the normal, no shock 190 school days? Paid or not.

Wasn't the mad one Murdoch

I really couldn't give two hoots what anyone thinks about me taking my kids out of school in term time. I do a hell of a lot more learning out of school with them than many parents who never take their kids out of school. And as for reception age school 'missing their work' purrlease they won't be destined for a job in pound land because they missed a few days of painting chalking and junk modelling!

I have taken my children out of school 4 times for holidays and once for a christening which was authorised , always at the end of term and always unauthorised even though they have over 90% attendance , I havn't been fined we dont do it all that often this has been over 12 years .

WhaleOilBeefHookedIWill Why is that when I read your post in my head that a really strange deep Southern American accent came from nowhere. Funny though the accent not your post.

I really must be tired. me thinks.

I actually think the suggestion of 'overtime' for teachers to work with students who need additional support in the hols is a sound one.

It already happens - several of my colleagues are running classes over Easter.

I'm not because I'm leaving it to my younger, childless colleagues - a) they need the cash more because they're lower on the pay scale, & also I'd be paying childcare so it wouldn't be financially worth my while & b) I value the time with my own kids after neglecting them all term!

It shouldn't be linked directly to fines because it's not necessarily the kids who've missed a few days to take a holiday who need the catch up.

Tbh, I'm against fining. I have a number of relatively comfortably off friends who simply weigh it against the saving in holidaying in termtime & cheerfully accept that if they get fined, it'll be worth it - whereas for families taking a holiday in term time because they just can't go otherwise, it's pointlessly punitive.

Poor attendance is a huge issue - but one-off short holidays far less so than the kid who is off 3 days in every fortnight with spurious 'colds' 'tummyaches' etc (often because the child isn't doing great anyway & the parent(s) struggle to cope with parenting/school/life.)

We should be supporting persistently poor attenders, not gunning for the parent who has made a perfectly rational decision that their family could bloody well do with a couple of days' break & the kids' schooling will not suffer irreparably as a result.

I'm thinking of the teacher who has to write the instructions for another teacher to teach the things which were taught while the holidaymakers were away.

There's an article in today's Guardian about support for persistent absentees - in reality it's support for the parents who, for various reasons, aren't able to parents they might want to: DV, mental health issues. It makes interesting reading. Crap at links, but's on the front page of the online version.

Parent "as".

Most people that take their kids out of school for a holiday are doing it as a 'one off'
Ive never done it but this year i am due the fact my family have never had a holiday and because of sun vouchers.
It doesn't mean we have mental health issues or cant parent properly-that article is statisical and doesn't bare any connection to people like op at all.
I do believe education is important but once in a while a 'one off' holiday that happens only once in many years of school life i dont see a problem.
Problem truanties normally take days off here and there over the course of the year, there the sort the goverment should target

My sil managed to get an authorised holiday for the kids to spend time with their dad when he got back from fighting in Afghanistan. They will authorise for exceptional circumstances & its the education welfare officers that impose the fine not the headteacher.
Parents who take their kids out to save money & leave the teachers extra work to do to catch the kids up really annoy me. I hope your not looking for sympathy just because you want a holiday. The rest of us have to deal with it.

The other side of this, especially in primary schools it seems to me, is that if parents can't take children out of school for a week then the schools must ensure that all of the weeks the children have to attend the school have to add something of real educational value. Too often at primary school the last week of term was filled with videos, extra time on the field/in the garden, etc., and it seemed that not one bit of work was given, topic taught or what had been learnt consolidated.

The responsibility for teaching and learning is a two way street and as a parent I used to feel irked too often within the state primary system that there was a lot of wanting and asking from the school and that sometimes the scales were not as evenly balanced as they should have been.

Usually I am not in favour of term time holidays but the OP is taking holiday in July,let's face it shes not going to miss anything important ,maybe a trip,activity day or watching a DVD ,July is notorious for very little of substance being done,I would go and not give it a second thought.

Ds year 8 had 5 days off in January as dh took him to Australia.
School authorised it no problem...said what a great opportunity it was.

YANBU it's ridiculous.

I know from experience that July isn't exactly the month of crucial work(they don't call it worksheet fortnight for nothing)

These kind of rules don't stop those that truant from truanting.

If there is going to be a complete lack of common sense and judgement schools should be stopping all school trips eg ski-ing that all kids can't afford to go on.If all kids are going to be forced into 100% attendance regardless then I don't see why the rich kids and teachers should get to go off on jollies whilst the poorer kids who never go on family holidays and can't afford extortionately priced school trips are kept in school.

It's a sledgehammer to crack a nut approach which doesn't work and actually reduces the life experiences of many children.

It's also part of a nanny state system the Tories bragged about putting an end to.

Go and enjoy!

here here mrs heffley you are completely right

andiloveonions...i was referring to subteachers or student teachers who might appreciate a little extra work experience and money...they do exist as i know one that would work all summer if she could. It wouldn't be that hard to organise the teacher would just tell the parent the topics on the curriculum they would be missing and the parent would ask the holiday teacher to run over it. In the age of technology it shouldn't be too hard

...and if no teacher wants to do it then just don't fine the parents. Give them the work and tell them to home tutor. it is horrendous to take money from a family for no reason other than just to line the pockets of the authorities. parents have a right to spend time with their children at any snatched opportunity.

the current school holiday system was fine for the old days when all mums stayed at home and saw their kids every day after school, ate dinner with them and put them to bed...but nowadays many mums work weekends, night shifts and during holidays which means that family life is being eroded.
dictating to families when to take holidays does more harm than good. the world is progressing all the time but schools are getting left behind with the old fashioned system. Why can teachers not take staggered holidays throughout the year like every other worker in the rest of the country?(shock gasp!)They already get paid all year round and already seem to disappear out of the classroom for many a reason ( my son already spends half the year being taught by subs and students) . Families are not one size fits all but are being squeezed into a system that expects them to be.
Yes yes i can hear shouts of oh they couldn't afford to do that...well if schools can't afford to change the system then they should leave parents to it and should not fine them for wanting to be with their kids for a week or 2. If they must insist on fining then the money should be used to help the kid catch up on missed work

In our local authority the primary heads had to go to a meeting at which they were given a serious telling-off by some bigwig drafted in from a neighbouring county- they will be in deep trouble for authorising term time holidays unless the circumstances are truly exceptional. Schools are judged on statistics- by parents, Ofsted and the general public. If you like league tables & Ofsted you have to accept that amongst all the benefits you may perceive, they will, occasionally, bite you on the arse too.

Schools are facing huge pressure from Ofsted on attendance so many now wont authorise holidays as the children already get 13 weeks off. How many parents use the same Ofsted report to chose a school but then damage it by taking unauthorised absence.

Its not the schools fault you cant afford to go in the school hols, you could have saved extra and simply gone next year instead or stayed in the UK like lots of other families have to. A holiday is not an essential.

As for they "make you feel guilty for doing something that should be a really positive experience for us as a family" - you are breaking the rules by going in term time but you knew that when booking.

"you could have seved extra" Well there is the same old argument again, osmeone who clearly can afford to save extra dictating to those who can't. I dont think anyone is arguing for foreign holidays here. I will be taking my DD out of school for a week at the isle of wight. As for ofsted reports, i think is all a pile of tosh anyway. My DDs school is THE best school in the area, yeah its a bit old fashioned catholic school but it is streets ahead of the other schools inthe area - oftsed don't agree. Well im not into box ticking so i dont really care about it. My holiday wont be costing us anything, we have financial difficulties we cannot AFFORD to save extra (or really anything at all at the moment) Our family need and deserve this holiday. Rules? arse

If you can't afford a holiday in school holidays, then you can't really afford the holiday can you?

We haven't had a holiday since before DD was born (8 years). We can't afford it and refuse to mess up her schooling just because we want to.

So we don't have holidays. Easy.

All this self entitled bullshit gets on my tits.

If you really think that its going to mess up her schooling then that is up to you. I don't happen to agree. What is self entitled about needing a break as a family? My DD is 6, a week from school (well four days if we go when she has an inset day - schools dont seem to mind having those when they COULD just as easily to their staff training in the holidays) is not going to mess up her schooling.

It is just a matter of common sense. I was taken out of school for SIX weeks to go to australia twice durin primary school. The first time, it made no odds, the second, HUGE mistake as i missed all the prep for my eleven plus and as a consequence didn't pass. This was totally irresponsible of my parents. but a week out of school - its really not going to make that much difference.

Self entitled - you know what really gets on my tits - bloody cliches thrown around as insults.

Your choice - my choice, entitled? I could call your decision smug and a little bit precious, but i woudlnt, its your decision and what you feel is right.

Havent read whole thread, but;

this trip will likely not affect your childs education

what would affect your childs education, is if every parent took their child out for a week or 2 weeks holiday during term time

Then the teacher has to facilitate catch up, which again might not affect your child, but will and does affect some childrens education

not in uk clearly but I am always amazed at idea that you have to ask parent for permission to take hols during term.. here (rep of ireland) you just do it... To op, can't think taking a wk in jul before school hols means your child will miss much other than the generally enjoyable last wk of school

blubberyboo: "Why can teachers not take staggered holidays throughout the year like every other worker in the rest of the country?(shock gasp!)They already get paid all year round and already seem to disappear out of the classroom for many a reason ( my son already spends half the year being taught by subs and students)."

Eh? What's that got to do with anything? And who do you propose is going to teach your child's class if their teacher is off on holiday during the term?

And to goawaybob "when she has an inset day - schools dont seem to mind having those when they COULD just as easily to their staff training in the holidays" INSET days already come out of holiday entitlement (for teachers). Many are tacked on to the end/beginning of the children's existing holiday, but one or two have to happen mid-term due to the limited availability of trainers and so on. But that's a whole different thread.

"If you can't afford a holiday in school holidays, then you can't really afford the holiday can you?"

Yes, I can thanks, and easily. Its less than half the price of a month later.
But then I live in a less nanny state country that realises that my children and my holiday plans are my own affair and none of the schools business.

Ok so anecdotes don't make evidence but when I was at secondary school I had three holidays during termtime, including to the States and Canada. Amazingly I still made it through my A levels and to Cambridge.

Looking back, I can't remember a word of German, any geography, history or much else from secondary school (not really sure how much I really learned there tbh) but I remember the time I spent with my family in Canada and the US vividly. Worth every day away from school.

The rules are lazy. There are far better ways to deal with poor attendance and truancy. Go, OP, and enjoy.