to be annoyed at motorists who say that cyclists don't pay road tax

[toweraboveyou]

There are a lot of motorists who insist that cyclists have no rights on the road as they don't pay any road tax. However, this is bollocks as road tax was abolished in 1937 and all road financing comes from general tax which means that cyclists, such as myself, pay as much towards the roads as anybody else and have just as much right to be on them safely.

There is no way that any driving theory test said that cyclists should stick to 30-40mph. No way!

It would be on a par with King Canute telling the tide what to do.

So cyclists do have different rules from other traffic then? (this is the point I'm unclear on)

No You're right. I ride on a dual carriageway X 2 daily. I'll remember to bring my rocket pack tomorrow morning.

Yeees!! As do pedesrtains, buses, trucks, low-flying pigs at take off. We are NOT all cars!!

Our road system is shared by cars, bicycles, HGV vehicles, Reliant Robins, and motorcycles. Road-users are supposed to be considerate of each mode's pros and cons, and thus adjust their expectations.

You can't and shouldn't treat them all the same, unless you are willing to place yourself in the blind spot of an HGV.

But that's my point BigJessie. In actual fact, most cyclists I see do not ride in the middle of the road if there is a lot of traffic behind, they adjust their position based on the situation at the time and try not to hold people up.

Of course there are inconsiderate road users of all kinds like people who drive up my boot when I am doing the speed limit.

So cyclists do have different rules from other traffic then? (this is the point I'm unclear on)

Perhaps you should go read it the highway code then.

We have our own section and everything. Did you skip that bit?

And you return this kindness from "most cyclists [you] see", by saying they should be banned from the road, for being unable to do 30-40mph?

The speed limit is a LIMIT. It is not a target at all.

You should DRIVE at the appropriate speed for the conditions.

On a bicycle there are NO speed limits, except in Richmond Park and a few other places. That means that you can do whatever speed you can or want to. Some places, such as motorways, bicycles are excluded. But generally they can go anywhere. As for lane positioning, if you can keep with the AVERAGE traffic speed, it's sensible to 'take the lane'. If the traffic is much faster than you, and there's a heavy volume of it, it makes sense to stick to the left, or find an alternative route. If there's a hazard ahead, such as a blind bend or pedestrian island, it makes sense to move out towards the middle of the road to discourage dangerous overtaking.

Arf at the current juxtaposition of threads;

This one with 'to think that the news is demonstrating our over-reliance on cars'

Yes I have read the highway code but I can't see anything about speeds for cyclists being different. It does say be considerate of other road users though, which is standard.

Poulay - any driving instructor these days will tell you otherwise, but I think we will have to agree to differ.

I never said anyone should be 'banned from the road'!

'if you can keep with the AVERAGE traffic speed, it's sensible to 'take the lane''

This, I agree with.

It actually says that drivers should reduce their speed when sharing the road with pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders, particularly children, and motorcyclists. So rather than us having to go faster, drivers generally should be slowing down.

I never said anyone should be "banned from the road"

But that is what it would amount to, isn't it? A sneaky little ban, masquerading as equality.

Look, I'll just copy and paste from Wikipedia, to get the point across.

"Typical speeds for bicycles are 15 to 30 km/h (10 to 20 mph). On a fast racing bicycle, a reasonably fit rider can ride at 50 km/h (30 mph) on flat ground for short periods. [my italics]

The highest speed officially recorded for any human-powered vehicle (HPV) on level ground and with calm winds and without external aids (such as motor pacing and wind-blocks) is 133.284 km/h (82.819 mph). That record was set in 2009 by Sam Whittingham in the Varna.[5] In the 1989 Race Across America, a group of HPVs crossed the United States in just 6 days.[6][7][8][9] The highest speed officially recorded for a bicycle ridden in a conventional upright position under fully faired conditions was 82.52 km/h (51.29 mph) over 200m.[10][11] That record was set in 1986 by Jim Glover on a Moulton AM7 at the 3rd international HPV scientific symposium at Vancouver."

source

"So cyclists do have different rules from other traffic then? (this is the point I'm unclear on)

Perhaps you should go read it the highway code then.

We have our own section and everything. Did you skip that bit?"

Well, IME a good number of cyclists appear to have skipped these bits themselves :

69 You MUST obey all traffic signs and traffic light signals.

71 You MUST NOT cross the stop line when the traffic lights are red. Some junctions have an advanced stop line to enable you to wait and position yourself ahead of other traffic (see Rule 178).

79 Do not ride across equestrian crossings, as they are for horse riders only. Do not ride across a pelican, puffin or zebra crossing. Dismount and wheel your cycle across.

There's no doubt Soupy - I said as much further down.

Since so many cyclist appear to have failed to read the section specifically for them, why should motorists bother?

"Well, he didn't do it either!"

Well it's generally the drivers doing the cyclist bashing (both verbally and in some cases physically) and not vice versa so really if drivers are wanting to take the moral high ground then they need to look at their own behaviour before criticising others.

I'm all for a bit more consideration all round.

Since so many cyclist appear to have failed to read the section specifically for them, why should motorists bother?

did you take a driving test? then I would have assumed you did read it at some time. or maybe you should hand the licence back as you you don't bother keeping up with a condition of this license...
...and because it's not usually them that get killed

I cycle regularly and never run red lights. There are however a couple of junctions (one in particular) where I will wait ahead of the solid line for the lights to change because it is not safe for me to wait anywhere else (because of the configuration of the roads ahead and the lack of road markings prior to the junction, I have to be ahead of the cars).

I have also had, on a number of occasions, had cars pull out in front of me, causing me to make an emergency stop - despite the fact that I wear a hi-viz jacket and have a flashing light. I have seriously considered not braking and going into the side of them so as to cause them some damage, but not done so because I am more vulnerable than they are, even if I have right of way.

Some drivers are crap. Some cyclists don't follow the Highway Code - but when you see that happening, ask the question, "is it because it is the safer option?" because a cyclist is so much more vulnerable. It may because they too are being arses - but it could also be because they have had to make a judgement based on safety.

There has been some research which showed, iirc, that female cyclists are more likely to be injured on roads than male cyclist precisely because they are more law abiding and less assertive

I for one don't want to be one of those statistics.

We do know of the sections Soupdragon - it's just a real shame drivers don't pay particular attention to their bits. So since "many" cyclist don't follow the HC then it gives drivers more of a licence to commit carnage? Don't ask why should motorists bother, as if they do already.

Even the notion of the car driver having any 'moral highground' is laughable in extremis.

Yes but in the morning when traffic is very busy, there is no safe way to overtake

Who is cycling so slow you need to over take in busy traffic?

If I go to work by foot it takes me 25 minutes
If I go to work by car it takes me 20 minutes - then 5 minutes to park
If I cycle to work it takes me 10 minutes - I get to leave my bike on the rack outside

TBH I like the walk, but it is really slow to take the car and takes twice as long as if I cycle.

The Transport Select Committee report referred to above detailed that expenditure on roads by central and local government amounts to some £9 billion per year.

Nearly £5.8 billion was raised through Vehicle Excise Duty in 2010/11 and about £27.3 billion was raised through fuel tax in 2010/11.

Road users - read car drivers - contribute over £48 billion to the Exchequer each year.

www.racfoundation.org/faq/Economics#a2

The VED or car tax is hardly worth worrying about - when 27.3 billion is raised through fuel tax, car tax is a poultry amount to what is gained taxing petrol - 54p a litre if it wasn't taxed [shocked]