to take a chickenpoxy child away for trip, partially on public transport?

[dappply]

since yesterday DS has chickenpox. Doesn't seem to be feeling very bad, but is very spotty. we had plans to go and visit friends this weekend. It's a four hour trip, an hour of it by public transport (boat trip as they live on an island).
Am I meant to isolate him? Should he not be going on public transport? WIBU to go?

I posted up-thread about my current experiences, but will recap as it is interesting to the rest of of debate.

OP, really sorry if this is a hijack:

DS has CP at the moment, so I've been keeping him at home or only taking him out in the car for drives. I'm 20 weeks pregnant but had CP when I was 11, so I defo remember it. Woke up this morning with an itchy rash on my back, rang GP clinic and they gave me an emergency appt within one hour of me ringing.

Got bloods done to check my immunity as they didn't want the unborn baby to be a risk while I'm in constant contact with an ill DS. GP said they'd be sending the blood to the labs via taxi as it was that important!

He told me that for people with weak immune systems all it takes is for them to be exposed to someone with CP for 15 minutes for them to be at risk.

My Dr really took it seriously and I think the public should do too.

The rash on my back turns out to be a reaction to a new shower gel, but just to be 100% he took the bloods too.

Sorry to read about anyone here who has lost a loved one or suffered from a bad experience linked to CP.

Jesus, MrsDeVere, I'm so sorry :( my dd is only 6mo and hasn't had chicken pox yet, I had no idea how risky it is, will absolutely keep her indoors when she does after reading your post.

I don't think you should stay away mrs dv, it's obviously something you care deeply about. Have you considered campaigning publically about it ? I guess you kind of are by doing it here, but could you also set up a foundation or something? Seriously, people in general really don't think it's a big deal. The amount of people today that have told me not to worry about going out, and friends have been round to visit too without worrying. The general attitude seems to be to be to me that it's not that bad, it's really common and really unlikely that you'd come into contact with anyone that it would harm by just popping to the park/shops etc. Sorry if that makes you angry, but it's really the case. I guess you already know that :-(

I hope everyone that this thread has made sad or angry by unhappy memories of lost loved ones is OK.

I think these threads are useful. Unfortunately as you have found out dapply they take on a life of their own and the OP will continue to get battered whatever decision they make.

But at least you know, by starting this thread, someone might have learned that CP isnt as benign as they thought.

I hope your DC gets better soon.

thanks lady, i'm sure he'll beon the mend soon enough. Poor little thing's not really up to much today, very quiet and quick to tears. Spent most of the afternoon stood naked at the living room window enjoying the breeze on his spots and counting how many cars went past, and bursting into tears when they went the wrong way. he's definately not in good enough form for a trip away poor boy.

it amazes me why the risks of chicken pox are not publicised more. Unfortunately it seems to be that the people who do know are because they have either been personally affected, or close friends or relatives have been affected by the risks.

As I posted earlier I did not know of the risks until a close friend caught chickenpox (from her own dd) in early stage pregnancy and we inadvertently exposed my dad who is undergoing cancer treatment to cp when we visited him with ds (who was in the pre-spot but contagious phase). To have to listen to my friend telling me of her visit to the consultant who basically asked her when he should arrange the termination . She didn't terminate and had a healthy ds.

I have always known the risk to pregancy of rubella as I am sure most people are, but not chicken pox. Years ago one of my work colleagues had had contact with someone with rubella and he had to notify the office so any pregnant women could be advised accordingly. Assume same does not apply to cp. When I was ttc I went to the doctor and was tested for immunity level for rubella but there was no mention of chicken pox. Also during pregnancy no mention was made of the risks of cp.

Yes I know you can look up risks on the internet, but as others have said cp is generally seen as a common childhood illness, bit of a pain and much itching, but with rest and lashings of camomile lotion its just one of those things children get. So most people wouldn't probably think of looking for more information.

I now spread the word. Again someone has mentioned that cp threads regularly appear on MN. However, I am relatively new to MN and this is the first one I have seen and I am sure there are a number of new Mumsnetters like me. For all of you who have lost loved ones (and my heart goes out to you) I understand it must be so frustrating to see these threads keep reappearing but hopefully it means that more people learn of the risks.

I do think there needs to be more awareness about the risks of CP to pregnant women and the immunocompromised but I don't think we need to go down the path of making people terrified that their healthy child will catch it (as has happened in other countries) given that for the vast majority it is an uncomplicated illness. That has already happened in the UK in relation to rubella. It can be dangerous for pregnant women but is usually very mild and uncomplicated in children yet people still worry about their child contracting it.

Poor expats dd (being treated for leukaemia) had to be given extra treatment as a result of being exposed to pox - no ones fault (on contact with both before spots came out) it was a big enough hassle as it was, why inflict that on someone?

Glad you are staying in, and at home, and I hope that you yourself do not catch it.
I would change doctors. This is basic information any doctor should know regarding cp, he gave bad advice, that could have serious consequences for someone.

I stayed inside with my children when they had chickenpox, and also while I was a babysitter for 2 children who had it. (They caught it from my son) My ds and the other little boy didn't act sick at all, but the little girl was very poorly and ran a high fever and her mother ended up taking several days off work to care for her.
I think it is best to stay inside or in your own back-yard away from other people, am relieved you are.
Hope your little one has a full and speedy recovery.

I never knew it was a risk to pregnant women or indeed to people on immuno suppressant drugs etc until I read about it on MN.

So I'm grateful for that.

I have to say it hasn't been at all mild for either of my children. Ds2 was really poorly with a very high temperature, and ds1 has it even worse with a very bad sore throat and he's spent a couple of days crying on and off because he can't swallow, can't sleep and can't stand the stuff I'm trying to give him for it.

I hoped they would have the 'running around without any ill effets' version of it but sadly neither of them has been that fortunate. It's pretty nasty sometimes.

There does need to be more education re:CP, even within the medical profession. I,m an ex-nurse, adult, and worked for many years on a chest ward, we used to get a lot of immunocomprimsed patients, but also one or 2 with TB. So we were shit hot on our isolation nursing.

Why am I telling you this? Well even with that none of us realised that CP was so bad, clearly you don't want any of your poorly patients to get another infection, but even with research at the time we didn't realise the danger.

What brought it home was when one of the nurses developed spots on her first shift back from 2weeks holiday. We called A/E asking if we could send her down, and then called night nurse manager to inform that we would be sending her home.

Quite rightly all hell broke loose, we were all pg tested, the one known pg was sent home having had anti viral treatments. All patients were then nursed as isolation patients. Thankfully none of them did contract it, sadly the nurse who did have it (and never knew where she had got it from) passed it on to her fit/active/ 20+ year old brother who ended up spending 2 weeks in ITU.
He very nearly didn't make it, crashed twice, family told at one point to say their goodbyes. He didnt fully physically recover for over 18 months.

As I said the nurse never knowingly came in contact, no young children in the family, so it had to have been when out and about.

What lots of people don't realise is that the Chicken Pox strain that is around now is stronger than when it was a more common childhood disease. People who throw Pox parties think that it's something mild, after all their Mum/Dad/Great Aunt Sue had it and was fine. . .

It's only because of this that I as a childless person know how rotten it is, and any one who thinks shingles isn't that bad gets pointed in the direction of my friend who ended up have to retake a year in Uni from catching it at 19.

Good on you OP for taking the time to check up the advice you were given and for taking all the advice on board.

I'm a slow Typer so just read the comment above re:rubella. Same thing, stronger strain now, so when I had it in the 70s it was a. Mild thing, I remember having it and feeling fine.

However I caught it again in the 80's, it's a myth that you can only catch it once, if you don't develop immunity, you can get it again. Anyway 2nd time sick as a dog, and still don't have immunity. have had the vaccine twice, once at 12 despite protesting loudly that I'd had rubella, and again before I was allowed to do my midwifery rotation when training.

The thing is while I appreciate that especially in the current job market not every one can take time off etc, but you are intentionally puting other people at risk.

If chicken pox is so risky isn't it high time there was a vaccination program?

German measels is vaccinated against purely because of the risk to pregnant women. Perhaps chicken pox should be the same. There is even a vaccine available.

Catspee, do you have any evidence for these 'stronger strains' because afaik CP and rubella are the same as they ever were. CP has always been more risky in adults so it's not surprising that even a fit 20 yo would come down with it badly. It's one of the reasons why people prefer to catch it in childhood and one of the reasons against having the vaccine which can then push it into adulthood.

The vaccine is not as effective as having the illness though.

And it tends to be limited in terms of the amount of time it lasts. Others know far more about it than I do but there are good reasons why it's not done.

One hand, the vaccine doesn't guarantee immunity, it can wear off and can then leave adults exposed when it is more risky. A woman who contracts CP when she is a child will more than likely be immune as an adult so it's a bit extreme to vaccinate an entire population of children to protect a few women who may not have contracted CP in childhood or may not have gained immunity when they caught it.

Of course a woman could always take responsibility for herself and her unborn child and if she is unsure of her immunity status she could have a blood test and/or consider having the vaccine herself.

IMO rubella should be treated the same way.

Future* unborn child. I don't think you can have the vaccine if you're pregnant.

On a side note, I was struck by the number of people on this thread - pretty much everyone I think - who referred to the GP as "he". All except the OP, who actually saw the doctor, and referred to same as "she". (Perhaps it's because we can't believe a female doctor could be quite that stupid, an unfair assumption as it turns out!)

The vaccine doesnt always stop infection but if the person get CP is will be mild. My DS2 got it five years after vaccination and he got two spots.
It was his first week in a new school. I was terrified he would have passed it on because he goes to special school and lots of the kids are vulnerable.

I dont think people should be frightened of their children catching CP (unless they have had a very bad experience - then its only natural). They should be aware of the complications for their child and the implications of their child passing it on to vulnerable.

I dont think we should molly coddle parents incase they get scared. That is a nonsense. It is important they have the facts. We dont protect parents from the dangers of meningitis in case it worries them.
It may be more dangerous than CP but its a lot rarer.

I know of several cases of healthy children killed by CP and those who have nearly died.

We dont play fast and loose with flu, rubella, scarlet fever, measles etc so WTF do we do it with CP?

My understanding is the vaccine is only effective in a small majority of cases and that regular boosters are required.

My DD1 contracted CP when my DS1 was 6 weeks old, it was terrifying as we were told that CP is fatal in 20% of cases in infants under 12 weeks. I had no idea about those risks prior to his being infected. Fortunately he only contracted a mild dose (although that in itself is irritating as he doesn't have sufficient immunity and has had it on several ocassions) but at least he is safe and well.

MrsD do sorry for the loss of your DD and to everyone else who has lost loved ones

Mrs Devere - because CP is not usually serious/fatal in healthy children. That is the fact. I do think people should be informed about the dangers to others so that they take proper precautions but there's no need to scaremonger about the disease itself. There are very few deaths in the UK from CP and iirc over 75% of them are in adults.

Also, the vaccine doesn't guarantee immunity or a mild case. Some unvaccinated children have mild cases just as some vaccinated children could have a bad case.

No the fact is it can kill, why would you risk even the tiniest possibility of doing that to someone when it can be avoided?

There is no reason why someone should be at the shops/park/indoor play when you know they have CP, why should people not explain what can happen incase someone gets scared, better someone scared than someone else dead.

bumbley nor is measles, scarlet fever or rubella fact.
But we do not deliberately expose our children to these diseases, look forward to them getting them over and done with or expose other people to them because 'he doesnt feel ill and I need to by some milk'

You have just repeated what I said about the vaccination

I just wrote a long post about what happened to DD but I deleted it.

I just cant be arsed. Its too painful. You seem determined to be right. Go ahead and be the sensible one.
Knock yourself out.

I have nursed several children who have had chicken pox encephalitis. Dare you to tell their parents chicken pox is perfectly safe....