A&E could charge to treat binge drinkers after night out

[MrsKittyFane]

AIBU to think it may be a good idea or am I being heartless?

MrsKittyFance Binge drinking is not the same as alcoholism

I have had 2 car accidents which required me to go to A&E, once in an ambulance, the other my dad took me there. Both times I was sent a bill which I sent to my insurance company and they settled. So, if I had to pay for that why not drunks?

I have never, ever been drunk in my life so have never had any accident or injury caused by drink. I'm like Kal further up the thrread, I don't get the drinking culture in this country. When you are on holiday the only pissed up, puking, swearing, fighting louts are british

Don't be so bloody ridiculous - YABVVU. And I say this as an A&E nurse. TBH we get far more sober time-wasters than drunk ones - worried well, people who won't take time off work to go to the GP, people who won't wait for a GP appointment, people who are bored, people who want to worry their families for a bit of attention, and people with just plain old nothing sodding wrong with them. Although often unpleasant to deal with, the drunks often do actually have something wrong with them. I don't care how they came to need treatment, I care that everyone gets the treatment they need when they need it. I don't judge anyone needing treatment, I just give it, or triage them to another service where appropriate. What happens when someone who's drunk gets crushing central chest pain, but doesn't go to A&E because they think they'll be charged for being drunk? Then has a cardiac arrest? And how drunk do you suggest someone has to be before they're charged? Would you like us to breathalyse patients as they book in, then take credit card details from those over the drink-drive limit?

I've also had far, far more abuse from sober patients than drunk ones, or to be precise, relatives of sober patients. Usually patients in one of the above categories. I was once called a cunt by a sweet little old man because I had to explain that while I understood his wife's (non-emergency) ear infection was painful, it was not life threatening and I was helping the team prepare for an incoming cardiac arrest.

I do think alcohol is a slightly difference thing to the other list of other reasons which may led to a trip to A&E that people have suggested.

Given its already an offence to be drunk in a public place, if someone is out drinking and ends up in hospital then really they have actually broken the law. And in that sense, in theory rather than making it a charge for using hospital services, they could enforce it under the law as drunk and disorderly fine.

I don't think its a good idea, but I think that it could be done in this way, by the backdoor.

The real danger I see is not whether this is the start of a slippery slope of charging people for care. Nor do I see it as an issue for driving people massively into debt. I actually find it slightly sad that people have suggest money as being their concern over the biggest issue here.

And that is if people know you are going to face a fine or a charge if they went to A&E when they were drunk would it put people off taking going to get care in situations which potentially could be very serious or indeed life-threatening?

If alcohol consumed whilst out on the town is the biggest issue here, then perhaps a crack down using the law mentioned above more generally, actually on the streets would be the bloody obvious and more practical solution rather than doing it in A&E and using the money to fund it that way?

Ok but only if we:

Charge smokers and people who are over weight that come in with heart attacks

People with anorexia who come in with kidney failure

Jay walkers who get run over

Drug addicts who get into accidents

Time wasters who come to A&E with a sore toe/the cold/looking for attention

People who compete in extreme sports and get hurt

Where would you draw the line exactly?

Great idea in theory! Some people should take responibility for their actions - its a sad state of affairs. I believe all should be treated but then charged a penalty fee.

But, as others have pointed out, who should get charged and who shouldn't? There are so many different scenarios and situations. Would be very difficult but maybe worthwhile considering.

chocolatebuttin22 - it's the next best thing though. Regular binge drinking is a form of alcoholism!

Quote: "Anony other things have been brought up to illustrate that drinking and it's 'self inflicted' element could apply to other things too
( you know that though!! )"

To be honest, it's not the 'self-inflicted' part that bothers me. Do whatever you want to in the privacy of your own home, I don't care. What bothers me is spewing, gobby, out-of-control idiots who don't have the manners either to control their drinking or stay at home, but decide to go out and make everyone else's life a misery instead. How many fights, trips, accidents and injuries could be avoided if these people didn't think it was acceptable to inflict their particular brand of 'fun' on everybody else? And why is everyone else expected to just put up with it?

I don't particularly like standing next to smokers or fat, sweaty people on tube trains, but at least they don't generally start swearing at people, threatening them for no reason, waving broken bottles around and spewing over my shoes.

chocolate :MrsKittyFance Binge drinking is not the same as alcoholism
I'm aware of that.
At 20.15 I posted about binge drinkers/ pissheads.
At 20.23 I'm posting about alcoholics as an illness.
Obviously there is a crossover too.

Anony yes, it's the antisocial behaviour that gets me too.

my son was threatenend by someone drunk at the weekend. with a knife. He was petrified cos the drunk wanted him to prove he wasnt catholic. You know how fast drunks turn. Fucking bastard.

Can we all agree that the misuse/overuse/binge crinking culture in the UK is extraordinarily damaging to people involved and those who happen to be around them, both on the street on a Friday night, and in A+E for any number of reasons late at night at the weekend?

But can you also see that a free-at-the-point-of-care A+E service, run by extrodinarily dedicated, overstretched and often abused staff is something very precious to the NHS and fundemental to the way we should aspire to provide healthcare irrespective of ability to pay?

Why not tax alcohol more/close bars earlier/question the morality of clubs who allow their patrons to get totally bladdered at Happy Hour but give a great big cheer for A+E.

I totally disagree with taxing alcohol more, it is a massive amount that we already pay.

also like others have said where do you draw the parameters of who has to pay for their treatment when there could be other factors other than alcohol as to why they are in a&e.

How about instead, clamping down on the laws already in place regarding being 'drunk and disorderly' or 'drunk and incapable' and issue those people with an on the spot fine? If hitting people in the pocket is deemed to be the most effective approach then let the police hand out fines for urinating or vomitting in the street and generally being twats.

I think the NHS should charge sanctimonious whining dicks for being boring and tedious and give the money to me. To buy booze with.

I don't know why the gov is falling over itself to keep everyone healthy.

They will get old and eventually develop alzheimers or dementia and then cost a fortune to look after for the last years of their lives.

YABU, much as it's annoying where would you stop? You could say if anyone choses to do something dangerous or foolish then reap the consequences, this could embody smoking, drinking, eating or lack of eating, etc etc, not to mention pregnancy which is also a choice and a potentially dangerous one. Extreme i know but where would you draw the line?

I do however think anyone who is aggressive, rude or antisocial and/or causes destruction or abuses (verbally or physically) should be charged and fined on the spot. And that constitutes a large part f the problem, when people drunk some get very aggressive-especially towards paramedics and emergency staff.

I wanted to be a paramedic but a friend told me how often they get attacked/stabbed and threatened -especially by drunks.

realhiusewife - you're parents friend got an ambulance for a broken wrist? That in itself should be charged for imo. get a frigging taxi.

"Given its already an offence to be drunk in a public place, if someone is out drinking and ends up in hospital then really they have actually broken the law. And in that sense, in theory rather than making it a charge for using hospital services, they could enforce it under the law as drunk and disorderly fine."

What if they are drunk and have a heart attack at home? Will going to hospital constitute a breach of the law as that is a public place?

She bumped her head as well. The restaurant insisted on calling the ambulance.

I wouldn't worry, Dave's bound to introduce this or something similar in the near future anyway, seeing as he's determined to destroy the NHS and this seems one of the quickest ways.