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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think, if you kill children, you kill children?

46 replies

BratinghamPalace · 26/03/2012 04:57

Listening to the BBC this weekend I heard a few people discussing the south of France murders of children and the Rabi. Seems Israelis killed some children in Gaza by air strike but claim it is different. I say why? As a mother of three I think if you are a lunatic in France, an American soldier in Afghanistan, the American army or the Israeli army, if you kill children you are a killer of children. Be it by gun, or drone or air strike. If we all say "enough" then they might stop. Unreasonable?

OP posts:
seeker · 26/03/2012 05:18

No, it's definitely worse if you kill White European children.

troisgarcons · 26/03/2012 06:38

I don't think all the mothers in the world, uprising, hands on hips saying "enough" is going to stop wars is it?

And no one life is more valuable than another.

AlpinePony · 26/03/2012 06:39

Yabvu to lump the entire IDF alongside some deranged nutters.

I suspect you have a very loose grip on the realities of the troubles in Israel/Palestine/Gaza.

I was on holiday a few years ago having breakfast with an elderly Israeli man holidaying alone. His wife was supposed to be with him, however she was a neurosurgeon who'd stayed home to try and save a 6 year old Israeli boy with shrapnel in his head which hit him when rockets were fired in to a residential Israeli area. His mother, lying on top of him didn't do so well. that story never made your guardian...

LoopyLoopsIsTentativelyBack · 26/03/2012 06:40

Add 'middle class' to seeker's list and we're getting somewhere.

wildswans · 26/03/2012 06:45

Alpine, nobody is condoning the killing of Israelis. On the contrary, as I understand it, the OP is saying that it's always wrong to kill children whatever their colour or creed.

Are you saying that the air strike in Gaza was in some way acceptable?

Portofino · 26/03/2012 06:48

I was discussing this with DH last week after the Belgian coach crash, when he said that whilst it was sad, 80 people a day are dying in Syria at the moment. No one life is worth more than another - but the former upset me immeasurably so I did think about why. I think we lose our ability to empathise - they have been blowing each other in the ME for my entire living memory. I can't imagine what it is like to live in those circumstances.

I can imagine, on the other hand, the situation of parents of a group of school kids who live 10 mins up th road from me. So it IS different - though it shouldn't be. Nothing to do with them being white or middle class though.....

troisgarcons · 26/03/2012 06:52

Death is in your front room every time you turn the telly on. Be that the news or adverts for charity or anyone of the sports/comic relief style programmes..

People become desensitised.

seeker · 26/03/2012 07:02

That's the worst of all, loopy, you're right.

seeker · 26/03/2012 07:05

Those stories do make the news, AlpinePony. Just not exclusively.

sashh · 26/03/2012 07:09

Have a look at the number of children killed in Pakistan and afghanistan by drones.

Afghanistan also has problems if children do survive because the only readily available pain killer is heroin. And if your child has just lost a limb and is facing a 2 day treck to a hospital would you give them the only painkiller available?

Yes children are children and killing them is killing them, unfortunately the way news is reported and spin from politicians so differenciate with western children given more value than those in Africa or Asia.

seeker · 26/03/2012 07:10

However, the ratio of Palestinian children killed to Israeli children killed is something like 100:1. I'm not saying that even 1 is acceptable. But balance is important.

Bucharest · 26/03/2012 07:13

I think added to the desentisisation there is always the political element.

I may be wrong, and don't keep tally, but I certainly seem to hear more about any Israeli victims than Palestinian ones. Especially given the ratio quoted by Seeker.

Like back in the 70s we always heard more about IRA atrocities than nationalist ones.

None of which is right.

Bucharest · 26/03/2012 07:15

(was it just me or did the Belgian funeral "show" give anyone else the heebs, not for the poignancy of the tragedy, but for the weird stage managed "concert" style?)

wildswans · 26/03/2012 07:25

I have been to the ME a number of times and the geography of the region, quite apart from the political history, means that there is always going to be trouble.

This may be controversial, but I can't help but think that the modern state of Israel should have been sited somewhere else. Its present position, surrounded by its enemies, is always going to lead to conflict.

And I do agree that, if anything, the media (especially the American media) presents a pro Israeli stance.

DeWe · 26/03/2012 09:43

Can't remember where the quote comes from but:
"One child drowned in a garden pond is tragedy, 1000 children killed in an earthquake is news."

thegreylady · 26/03/2012 09:49

The deaths of children are always tragic. This is especially so when they die,not from disease, accident or natural disaster but at the hands of adults who are knowingly depriving the children of a chance of life. I think this also applies to famine where the wealthy nations could surely find a way to help not just spouting propaganda but actually feeding the children. If everyone who could afford it could give enough to feed an extra child at every meal it would help enormously. I know the logistics would be difficult but I bet it could be done.

Portofino · 26/03/2012 10:16

Bucharest - I agree - the Lommel ceremony was a bit "showbiz". The Leuven service was taken by the local priest and was much more low key. It did annoy me how they bigged up the VIP attendees though - I thought it should be about the famiiles, and wasn't surprised when some of them opted out.

JugglingWithTangentialOranges · 26/03/2012 10:25

I think the OP seems to be getting a bit of a hard time.

It seems a simple and very human thought - that the death of any child is so sad Sad When the child is killed that is even more sad.

As a mother especially - I agree with her.

Of course things can easily get more complicated and political once you look into situations further, but, perhaps as a Quaker, but also just as a person, woman, and mother, I think there should be room for the simple POV too.

It seems a good place to start.

AMumInScotland · 26/03/2012 10:49

Of course it's terrible. But there is a difference between deliberately seeking out children in order to target them, and targetting something that ought to be a legitimate military target but where children have been put in danger by others (eg "human shields" being put round military installations). The effect might be the same, but the intention is not.

Saying "enough" doesn't stop things - if one side of a conflict decided to stop because children are getting killed, and "gives up" their side of the fight, but the other side in the conflict go on to kill even more children, then that's a bad result, yes? If the allies in WW2 had decided to stop attacking Germany because children were being killed, then the concentration camps would not have been liberated and destroyed.

We should all do what we can to find peaceful settlements to these situations, but if it was as simple as us telling our military to stop then life would be a lot easier than it is.

CrunchyFrog · 26/03/2012 11:02

I have been horrified by the news footage. Like showing the bodies of the children killed in Afghanistan. They just wouldn't have done that if it had happened here.

And the constant "Jewish children" refrain. Fuck off. They were children. Constantly applying the "Jewish" part makes it seem like the murder is excused in some way.

I think it was Sport Relief that showed a mother as her child died, and then shoved a camera in her face immediately. Would. Not. Happen. Here.

People who are "other" in some way - their grief is less sacred, their pain just news fodder.

Not good, not good at all.

JugglingWithTangentialOranges · 26/03/2012 11:08

Well said CrunchyFrog

Agree it certainly sounds like Sport Relief went too far in that report.

Much better reporting (with standards) by the wonderful Miranda Hart in recent edition of the Radio Times. I thought it was excellent how she focused on the trials and challenges facing one family. Very compelling. Is there no end to that woman's talents ? (after "Call the midwife" performance too)

Popsandpip · 26/03/2012 11:09

What AMumInScotland said.

squeakytoy · 26/03/2012 11:15

Whilst it is equally sad when any child dies, it is less shocking when it happens in a place where it is more likely to happen.

We know that children are starving in some places of the world. We know that children are casualties of the troubles in the middle east. It is very sad, but it is no longer shocking or unexpected.

seeker · 26/03/2012 11:39

Well, it should be bloody shocking!

JugglingWithTangentialOranges · 26/03/2012 12:24

I still think it's tremendously sad and shocking that children die from a lack of clean water all around the world. I think the WaterAid campaign (hoping to get everyone to give £2 a month) is very commendable.

I think the news is too focused on things that happen "close to home" and doesn't have a good perspective on what's really happening in the world.

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