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AIBU?

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that the police get such massive pensions...

499 replies

TakenYears · 25/03/2012 09:57

....and from the age of 50.

Other public sectar workers get nothing remotely resembling that.

OP posts:
TakenYears · 25/03/2012 12:06

I don't think the financial argument is right here - that the police get back what they put in. Private sectar pension schemes would require far greater contributions to match what the police get - if that.

OP posts:
JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar · 25/03/2012 12:38

There are a few self-supporting public sector pension schemes out there, OP, despite what the Mail and the government would have you believe.

lesley33 · 25/03/2012 12:40

The majority of Local Govt Pension schemes are self supporting - a few are even in surplus. But pensions still must be cut because we can't afford it!

imogengladheart · 25/03/2012 12:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheBigJessie · 25/03/2012 12:59

MN gets more like The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists every day.

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar · 25/03/2012 13:07

Blush I've not read it, Jessie. Would you mind elaborating?

TheBigJessie · 25/03/2012 13:14

Sorry. Posting too quickly to put any thought into other people not lying around reading all day.

Basically the poverty and exploitation of the working classes in manual labour, such as building, in the 19th century. The downtrodden characters of the book accepted their lot, thus donating lots of money through their underpaid labour, to the upper classes exploiting them. In one chapter, they were outraged,that their public sector counterparts (workmen employed by the local authority) got one day off a week, whereas they did not. Did they ever think that maybe they should too? No...

Very common human phenomenon, it would appear.

TheBigJessie · 25/03/2012 13:23

e-text

Probably best to pack off the kids for a few weeks. I think I probably read it instead of doing my GCSE Eng Lit coursework. Back in the days when we had libraries.

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar · 25/03/2012 13:34

Ah, thank you. I concur. It's baffling and depressing, isn't it.

TheBigJessie · 25/03/2012 13:48

God yes. How can people still be fighting amongst themselves a hundred years later in the same way? We just even have fancy jargon now like "public sector" instead of "jammy bastards who work for the council".

DPrince · 25/03/2012 14:41

No one said you were being controversial. I just did agree with your comment. OP you can not compare a police pension to a private one. I think you should look at the money side more. You are whinging 'they get more' so you are looking at the facts and figures. Do you not think that my dad could have done with that 16% during his working life? Yes he could however, he has paid more (than other job roles) into a self supporting scheme, which is ONE of the reasons. If not your looking at fact and figures, what are you looking at.? Or are you saying you think they don't deserve it, that their job isn't worth the pension?

Plomino · 25/03/2012 14:52

I've been shot at, twice . Last August, I had concrete thrown at me, petrol bombs , you name it . I worked 25 days , of which approximately half were at least 18 hours plus long without a day off . I didn't actually go home at all for a week. The colleague standing next to me took a lump of concrete post to the head and had a fractured skull. Even dressed in his 'paramilitary' body armour and helmet.

I have restrictions on where I live. The road I live in had to be vetted, and I have to get permission to buy it. I am expected to uphold professional standards, both on and off duty. If something happens in front of me, I am expected to deal with it, and failure to do so is classed as neglect of duty, for which I can be dismissed without notice. I pay a higher percentage towards my pension that any other profession in the country, other than firefighteres, who who pay the same. And it's going up to 14.2 per cent in the next three years .

When I go to work,apparently I am to expect to be assaulted and abused , because according to some judges , it comes with the job. This week so far, I have had people wishing my kids would get cancer , and threats that they know where I live. This is not uncommon. Police officers have actually been followed home from my station and threatened . If other professions want to go to flagged addresses, like the ambulance, social services , bailiffs , firefighters, who do they call ? Us . When someone wants social services assistance due to welfare after 4pm on a Friday, who do social services advise them to call ? Us.
People kicking off in A and e , even with their own security staff ? That's us too. Which I don't begrudge. After all, we're all in it together aren't we .

If you want a massive pension, there is absolutely nothing stopping you joining. The Met are taking on recruits right now. Be my guest. Or pay more into your own .

This is how the government wins . Deride and rule . Pitting people against each other in a race to the bottom. The real question is, why doesn't everyone have a decent pension, not why don't the police have a crap one like everyone else.

TakenYears · 25/03/2012 14:55

"OP you can not compare a police pension to a private one."

I think you can if your financial argument is that police get out what they put in. If you contributed 50% of your earnings in the private sectar you STILL wouldn't get you as good a pension as the police get.

OP posts:
GrahamTribe · 25/03/2012 14:57

Plomino, that's perfect, just perfect. Posts like yours need a "like" button.

Stay safe.

SuperSlattern · 25/03/2012 14:59

Well said Plomino.

Tbh I am sick of hearing people winge about pensions/ public sector etc, but they don't actually change their job to get these great benefits, do they?

DPrince · 25/03/2012 15:10

OP what is your issue? Its not the money, but (according to you) your not deeming the job. A private pension is completely different to private.

LumpyLatimer · 25/03/2012 15:12

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LumpyLatimer · 25/03/2012 15:13
youngermother1 · 25/03/2012 15:14

constable pay after 10 years service £36k here.
Pension after 30 years service £24k here
private pension annuity, £100k investment would get you £2.7k (at 55 here
pot required to get police pay from private scheme is c. £900k. To achieve that you would need to save c. £1k per month here.

16% of pay is £5.8k, so pension is worth at least c. £6.2k per year, or 17% of pay. actually more because earning less in early years and getting pension based on final salary.

Whether this is reasonable is a different question - but facts above.

Plomino · 25/03/2012 15:17

After all it is my birthday ! Which I had to book as annual leave a year ago , to get the day off .

LumpyLatimer · 25/03/2012 15:25

If I had the energy I'd point out that police pensions are in part an incentive to join a job for which there is no union, and you are therefore repeatedly sodomised from every direction by your own employers.

This includes working hours to punishing they would be illegal in most other professions, receiving screaming abuse discipline from your seniors which in almost any other profession would end in an employment tribunal and compensation, and being formed, in the last 2 months, that you are not technically an 'employee' but rather stand on the same footing as a member of the armed services, and consquently have no employment rights.

This is before you get to the violence, the endless despair of long nights spent dealing with dead bodies/crack addicts/desparate children/beaten women/despairing young alcoholics in the grip of the DTs chained to a hospital bed. Before you mention the ruined family life, the non-existent social life, the health shot to pieces by endless night shifts.

The effects of the London riots, in which you worked 14 consecutive 14 hour days and had to argue for your overtime because the sergeant in charge of the paperwork accused everyone of lying to get more money. Before you mention the depression and cynicism that gradually claims you, and the knowledge that you are despised by hordes of the Guardian-reading public who think all police officers are sub-educated thugs. Before you take into account that in order to safe money, police officers cannot be seen together but must patrol alone, even if they are young and vulnerable, as anyone would be alone at 2am in a violent dark London estate with no-one nearby to hear you call.

And now, as of course everyone here will now, police officers will be recruited on a 5 year contract in order to screw them out of a decent pension. Oh, and since you asked, the Met police are losing their travel pass, which for some officers travelling in from miles around will mean an effective drop of some £5k in wages.

Oh and there is a payfreeze. PCs of around 5 years' experience will, in 5 years' time, be around £4k less well-off than they would have been a few years ago.

Complain about police pension all you like, but when was the last time you saved a child's life, then dusted yourself down and went to a riot where someone screamed in your face, over and over again, that they hope your wife's cunt gets cancer.

LumpyLatimer · 25/03/2012 15:26

O look apparently I did have the energy Grin

TakenYears · 25/03/2012 15:33

Youngermother - thanks for that!

Plomino - Happy Birthday - and you do a great job btw!

OP posts:
LumpyLatimer · 25/03/2012 15:35

Oh Graham I'm so very, very sorry Sad. It's my greatest fear.

Plomino · 25/03/2012 15:40

But you also forgot being held accountable for every 'unreasonable jobs worth ' traffic officer every time you go out socially and mention what you do. I just don't mention it any more .

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