To think that not all old people have worked hard all their lives...

[MrsKittyFane]

Go on, flame me.

I don't agree Heswall. But even if I accept your definition, my point was that for some of the skilled professions, living standards have declined. That is not the case for those doing jobs such as bus drivers, factory workers, home helps, etc - whose living standards have increased in compoasrison to BBS in the past.

I'm getting sick of hearing how the baby boomers have had everything, from people who clearly don't understand what the baby boomers actually are. The term covers those born from 1945 to 1964. Clearly there is going to be a huge discrepancy between the life-styles of those born at either end of the period.

People keep banging on about free university education. I was born in 1963 and went to a grammar school which turned into a comprehensive. Our cohort was 360. The vast majority left school at 16. The 6th form was about 30 pupils, and of those, 4 went to university. Probably another 10-12 went to polytechnics, but that might be over-generous.

My DD was born in 1986 and most of her class went to University.

We didn't have central heating until 1997, because we couldn't afford it. We had a car when we had DD but that was very unusual amongst our peers - most people our age couldn't afford a car. Now every 20 year old expects to have a relatively new car. We started married life in a house full of second hand furniture - most people setting up home now expect nice things and new stuff. Our honeymoon was a week in Cornwall out of season. Bloke on our team at work has just got married, in his 20s, and they are going to South America for 3 weeks. It is a different world.

Oh and as for mean-testing for old people's freebies, why should somebody who has paid into a private pension, and saved hard for their retirement then be told "you don't need any money", while the OAP who has sat on their arse for 40 years and is therefore "poor" gets everything handed to them on a plate? It's this attitude that stops people making provisions for retirement.

My grandparents had a small private pension so got nothing else, while the woman next door who had never done a day's work in her life got everything going.

Yes but equally you could leave school at 16 and get a decent job, you now have to be a graduate to be a nurse, a teacher, a recruitment consultant lol all of those jobs could be performed by an 18 year old before 1990 without going to university.
And many would swap a new car for the opportunity of owning a house at 18/19 and being mortgage free (3 times your salary of course) at 45.

Yanbu op. my bb parents are great for the old we worked hard all our lives routine, which would be true if it wasn't utter bollocks. Inherited masses, got lucky with money, good final salary pensions and money to just fling around. They have no idea how life is now. They don't honk we should have a mortgage but equally they don't think we should rent, but they inherited a huge house so have never had to worry about where they would raise their children. Lack of mortgage meant hey could save and afford a car very easily. They don't understand why people get them on finance, even cheap ones. I try to never discus money with them of I can help it.

It was only relatively recently that I realised that the state pension isn't means tested and that millionaires get it. If they are taking child benefit away from high earners they should do the same with the pension. I don't see why there should be a benefit entitlement just for being older-some people (including my DF) get a pension even though he is still working (self employed) and earning a generous amount.

Who owns a house at 18? We only got a mortgage because we'd saved almost every penny while we were engaged and even then the bank didn't want to lend to us. It wasn't as easy to get credit then as it is now. We will have a mortgage until we are 65 because we had to move house several times, so your theory doesn't work I'm afraid. Today's young adults don't want to live with their parents and save up - they want to just move in with someone and then expect to be handed a house. It didn't work like that then and doesn't now. How many times do you read on here people whining they can't afford a house when they already have children and have been living together for years? Of course you can't save for a deposit when you have bills to pay.

At 16 we were expected to act like adults while being treated like children. Today's 30 year olds act like children, so I think we lost out there too.

OP YANBU because some did, some didn't I'm not a fan of sweeping generalisations.

tinysock on the other hand YANVVU there are some wonderful people in the older generations you can't say they are all bad.

Getting a mortage for BBs was very hard. You had to own a bank account for years, often get reference letters from employers, etc.

And you do know most BBs didn't get generous inheritances?

We should look after our old people as we should look after our children and anyone who is vulnerable.
This should be true however nice, pretty, hardworking, lazy or horrid they are.

But no, old people are not all hardworking, decent people.

We have a growing prison population of older offenders.
I know several people who are coming up to their 50s (so in 10-20 years time will be classed as old) who have never worked or paid any taxes and have spent their lives on the rob.

Old people are often used as a weapon to beat other groups with (now their is an odd picture in my mind!).

If money is given to a group eg. asylum seekers - the old crap about 'what about our pensioners!!!!' is trotted out.

This has only calmed down a bit since people have latched on to other groups instead. This will wear off and the image of a dear old couple who have fought in the war and worked down the mines will be pulled out of the hat again.

How does it work then? We have had people moaning about the feckless and workshy for at least 30 years. Surely a lot of those feckless and workshy are now pensioners?

I wish people would make their minds up.

My parents generation have had it extremely easy(did you read that article in the Times/Telegraph yesterday)?

They had cheap housing,low mortgages,uni fees,CB etc,etc,etc.

There are a lot of very wealthy pensioners who are getting far too much from the state which could be going on those less well off.Many are still working with no mortgage but getting WFA,free bus fares,prescriptions etc.

The idea that all pensioners are hard working, poor people living in cold flats is completely wrong.Some are and should be protected many aren't.

Many people who bought houses in the 70s had well paid jobs in factories , then lost their houses and jobs due to the decline of the manufacturing industry in the 80s.

I was born in 1959 , I went to a secondary modern school , not one person I went to school with went to university.

Heffley -Some pensioners are very well off and yes benefits are not needed for them. But reading this thread you would think there were no poor pensioners, no pensioners living in social housing or private rented, no pensioners without a private pension, no pensioners who didn't go to uni, etc.

Here's some examples of hard working people from the generation you hate tiny.

I am proud of my Dad for a start. He wasn't quite at the age for conscription when the war started so at the beginning of the war he would do an early shift at the Clyde Ship Yards helping build for the war efforts, he would have a short break then work as an orderly in A&E til about Midnight then a few hours sleep often in the shelter before going to the yards again. The work at the hospital was voluntary all they got was a free cuppa. He saw a lot, I'm sure you can imagine and remember he was a teenager, at an age when our DC are likely to be still at school. During the Clydebank blitz he had to crawl into the rubble to give someone an injection as he was the only one small enough to fit. A few months later he was undergoing condensed training with the Marines which led to him fighting out East where he saw many of his mates die. He returned (lucky for me) and worked full time after demob until he was 65, at times he worked 2 jobs. He went part time at 65 due to failing health. At 70 he was forced to retire completely and within 2 years he was so ill and weak I had to lift him to the toilet etc. Do you hate him tiny?

My Grandfather stopped work at 70 too, he dropped dead suddenly.

My other Grandfather went off sick at 63, spent the next 2 weeks in hospital before dying.

An old school friend's Gran retired full last year. She is 86 She did admittedly go part time 10 years ago and had dropped her second job 11 years before that.

My Great Uncle never reached old age. His name is on the Menin gate, his body was never recovered. Shells tend to do that to a person.

Do you hate all these people tiny? Do you think they have had it so easy and not worked hard. There are lazy old people, just as there are some lazy young people. Stop considering them to be all the same.

OP at least you have some sense.

There are single mums running while hospitals and earning £200k a year just as there are baby boomers who have very little and need state support, it's the blanket Alf Garnet types who fought for this country/ worked hard all my life bollocks that makes us chuckle that's all.

Oh and I do know a lot people who bought houses at 18 because they were engaged to be married and as result were mortgage free at 45, having an account with a bank or building society so they can see your saving/spending habits is no hardship is it ? And saving for a deposit well even in 2004 a 10% was required to get a decent rate. Nothing unusual there.

Oh yes and my MIL isn't really old she was born at the end of the BB. She is still working, admittedly only one job now but with her family grown up why should she knock her pan out with 2 jobs when she can manage with 1.

Lets not forget that none of us will have it as good as current day pensioners when we retire.

The poorest pensioners will be poorer,the middle will probably be as poor as the poorest today. Yet nobody cares about tomorrows pensioners-us.

We're not being given the where with all to pay into our pension pots at the rate we need to because we're too busy being expected to fund all sorts of perks for many pensioners of today who go on long haul holidays and heat their homes to near tropical temperatures.

Mrsheffley tbh right now I can't think that far ahead. I am never likely to be a pensioner. My health is already suffering and I'm only 35. My energy is taken up just getting through today.

Heswall -I don't know anyone of any age who bought a house at 18. I suspect we mix in very different income brackets.

I don't know anyone who bought a house at 18 either. In fact it was more normal to rent than buy where I lived .

Out of interest can you claim your state pension when still working?

I have no idea mrsheffaly.

Far more normal to rent IME. My parents didnt buy until they were in their late 30s and they were quite unusual in buying their own home at all.

All that 'buy at 18' was a product of the Thatcher years wasnt it? Renting or living in council was seen as a failure (like using public transport )

Most people of my parents generation didnt leave home until they got married and went into a few rented rooms or a council house.

Yes you can claim state pension while working. Hence many people at 65 plus working part time.