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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think I don't bloody well want to work for free and that many companies are stingey and want to take the piss?

30 replies

Frustratedfreelancer · 21/03/2012 14:00

I've just started working freelance from home doing telesales.

I started working for one company generating leads and interest but I never seemed to get any commission as I had to pass the customer over once I'd got their interest for the company I worked for to close the sale and I don't think they were being honest with me about sales they had closed. They also started demanding I do 3 hours worth of admin and reports at the end of each week. All for free, on a commission only basis. I had also told them that I would be doing a maximum of 10 hours per week yet they hounded me day and night asking me to do more calls and expected me to do a 50+ hours week. I stopped working for them.

I then had another company approach me, who were selling financial products. For FREE they wanted me to source leads, phone leads, get them to agree to getting a call from a financial call centre, and then ONLY if the person in the call centre managed to sell them a product would I get any money. So in theory I could work for hours and hours and hours and get NOTHING if the person from the call centre was a rubbish salesperson.

And now I've been approached by another company, who again want me to work for free, and have set all these terms and conditions about how I can get paid. I said that no, I work for an hourly rate and they were genuinely shocked and put out that I didn't want to work for free. In the past when I've done commission only telesales I've got commission for every interested lead I've had, its certainly been a lot easier to earn from than these companies make it.

I think companies just want a freebie and want to rip people off!

OP posts:
Original poster
Frustratedfreelancer · 21/03/2012 14:01

Also I keep getting sodding Forever Living representatives replying to my advertisements wanting me to pay £200 upfront to sell their healthcare stuff. Erm no thanks

OP posts:
Callisto · 21/03/2012 14:20

Perhaps if you got a real job you might find that most companies are actually quite fair and happy to pay for work done. Any 'commission only' job is going to be a rip off.

Original poster
Frustratedfreelancer · 21/03/2012 14:20

AIBU?

OP posts:
Original poster
Frustratedfreelancer · 21/03/2012 14:23

Is freelance telesales not a real job then Callisto? Do you mean get a client that is willing to pay an hourly rate?

OP posts:
Callisto · 21/03/2012 14:27

No, unless you're happy to volunteer your time, I don't think that 'freelance telesales' is a real job. A real job is one where a paycheck comes in at the end of the week/month. I've done freelance work, still so sometimes, but I have never worked for a company that didn't pay me.

KateSpade · 21/03/2012 14:27

I once got offered a Job similar to what your doing (but properly in an office) which hourly rate + commission.

It was more money than I've ever come across in my lifetime.

Get a proper job, then you can earn proper money & not moan....

Original poster
Frustratedfreelancer · 21/03/2012 14:29

I'm going to say to all clients that approach me in future that I charge a basic hourly rate plus commission for sales. I think it's the only way really. I do agree with you Callisto, any client that says commission only is going to be a rip off, I'm finding that out the hard way

OP posts:
Original poster
Frustratedfreelancer · 21/03/2012 14:30

Sorry Kate I don't mean to moan, I just needed to vent really and see if it was me being unreasonable and expecting too much

OP posts:
FilterCoffee · 21/03/2012 14:37

YANBU.

Stick to your guns and only work if you're paid for it. Set a time limit and if you're not earning a decent amount by then, find other work instead.

Freelance work is a proper job, it's challenging to find your own work, manage your own time, negotiate your own pay and so on. Well done to you for taking on this challenge, without the cushion of an employer behind you. If it doesn't work at least you had the guts to try.

Goawaybob · 21/03/2012 14:42

Gosh, that sounds like an awful set up - it doesn't matter how good you are at setting up the sale, if the next person in the line to you is shite you wont earn anything.

My DD has a job working for a marketing company, but she works in the office and gets minimum wage plus commision. The commision is small but she is happy because she has a garunteed wage.

OneHandFlapping · 21/03/2012 14:43

I certainly don't think you should ever enter into a contract where your payment is dependent on information you can't verify eg sales made from your leads.

You could however, come up with a payment scheme based wholly or in part on leads provided, because you can verify that yourself. Any additional work requested eg admin reports, should definitely be provided at an hourly rate.

Do you have a written contract with your clients?

Callisto · 21/03/2012 14:45

Agree an hourly rate before you so much as turn your PC on for a client. Agree when they will pay you (I'm monthly, I invoice at the end of each calendar month) to suit you. Agree what you are and are not responsible for and anything extra (like the three hours admin at the end of each week) gets charged on top. Good luck. I love working for myself, but you do have to be tough and you must try and stay motivated. The thought of money earnt is a good way, I find.

Original poster
Frustratedfreelancer · 21/03/2012 14:52

Thank you everyone. No OneHandFlapping I don't have a written contract, it's been done on a casual basis so far, although I've not earnt a penny. I think a basic contract is in order really isn't it? Can I draft one up myself or do I need to get someone with a legal background to do it for me?

The company that have most recently approached me and were shocked that I charged an hourly rate have just come back and asked how many calls I could make for that rate. It's like asking how long is a piece of string and depends on what I'm selling and how warm the lead is and what the person I am talking to requires. I think if I was to go with them they would end up not paying invoices etc as they seem very reluctant to pay even a low hourly basic rate.

And I agree I do need to be tough and to stick to my guns and set my own terms and conditions. I guess any customers I do work for that accept my terms will be respectful of me from the word go if I lay it on the line to them.

Also I totally agree with those of you that said it's not a good idea to have payment depending on information I can't verify. It seems really unfair to do that but I'm guessing the companies that want to do that are hoping to be able to wriggle out of payment as much as possible.

OP posts:
Goawaybob · 21/03/2012 14:54

Kate - its really really horrible being out of work and there are simply not that many jobs that people can just get a real job at the drop of a hat!

Original poster
Frustratedfreelancer · 21/03/2012 15:04

The problem round here with finding a real job is that there aren't many telesales ones as it's not an affluent area with not much industry. The only telesales ones are selling double glazing (which is only evenings which I can't do as hubby works late/away a lot). I did have a telesales job once for a small marketing company, which was great but I only got my £6 per hour and no commission. I would love to know which companies pay fantastic money for telesales I really would. And I don't mean that sarcastically!

OP posts:
OneHandFlapping · 21/03/2012 15:13

A lawyer would tell you that you need to spend £££ hire one to have a decent contract. I have worked with awful and ineffective contracts prepared by armies of lawyers so I don't have whole-hearted respect for the profession.

When I was working for myself, I prepared a basic set of terms and conditions myself, setting out what I would do, when and for how much, and what my clients needed to do and when.

FilterCoffee · 21/03/2012 15:16

These companies who feign surprise at your charges are probably well aware of what the "going rate" is. This is just one of their negotiating tactics and you will come across it a lot.

OneHandFlapping · 21/03/2012 15:16

Oh, and make sure you limit the work you do for no payment.

You could eg invoice weekly, and decline to take on any more work if more than 2 weeks invoices are in arrears.

Make sure all this is in your terms and conditions too. Don't be a soft touch, or you will get taken advantage of.

HesterBurnitall · 21/03/2012 16:16

I'm not sure why the first few posts were so dismissive. There are lots of companies that would love this to be the future, and increasingly they're unwilling to pay properly for work done. When unemployment is high and people are scared for their future, there's no shortage of unscrupulous outfits willing to take your time and labour and yet very unwilling to pay for it. Businesses like freelancer.com are also helping to foster an environment whereby people are expected to pitch for work and earn a pittance.

Some people will tell you this is the way of the future and that globalisation can only mean a race for the bottom. It will be interesting to see whether paying next to nothing for work done is sustainable. To make money, you need a market. Employing people creates that market.

JustHecate · 21/03/2012 16:17

What about joining people per hour and bidding for jobs?

BukimiNoTaniGensho · 21/03/2012 16:24

To be honest though, you're not a freelancer, you're doing crowdsourcing. Or signing up for scams.

Original poster
Frustratedfreelancer · 21/03/2012 16:55

Thanks again everyone. Lots of ideas and advice there.

Bukimi, I wouldn't say it was scams as I don't actually pay anything. I've not heard anything else back this afternoon after my reply about the number of calls per hour being variable. I guess they are another company wanting maximum labour for nothing!

OP posts:
Jossysgiants · 21/03/2012 17:14

OP what sort of telesales have you done? In my experience B2b can pay better. You could try and set up a business offering lead generation and appointment setting services to small outfits that don't have the capability in-house. The commission only can work if as others have said you can verify and have control over the sales. However if not you will have to say you hourly rate and have a zero tolerance policy for time wasters
I have seen some sales freelancers saying they would do commission only but for 100 - 200% commission! Sounds crazy but if you think about it every sale which might have a potential future sale is a business asset

Other idea is you could target businesses directly with a seasonal element to their business to give them sales support at specific times of year . I.e gyms in January.
Sorry I am typing on phone so not great grammar here.

Sent from my iPod

Original poster
Frustratedfreelancer · 21/03/2012 19:02

Thank you Jossy for the great ideas. I've been previously doing some business to business and some business to general public calls but like you say the B2B often pays better. I totally agree on the zero tolerance thing too, I am going to make this totally clear in future, I bet the genuine ones wouldn't bat an eyelid at strict terms and conditions whilst the ones that don't want to pay a penny are the ones umming and aahing about it all

OP posts:
GrendelsMum · 21/03/2012 19:09

Have dropped you a PM