To wonder whether it is stupidity, unobservance or simply not caring?

[TandB]

When people stand and watch someone struggle when they could easily help?

I was waiting for the train with 2 1/2 month old DS in the sling. A lady was trying to get off with a pram and there is an unusually big drop to the platform so no way of getting down without risking tipping the pram. The two people nearest the door were a young woman and a middle-aged man who appeared to be able-bodied judging by the speed they had used when positioning themselves at the door, and there were several other people behind me. All of whom stood and stared at the lady and made no attempt to help despite not being able to get on the train.

So I did it. And they stood and watched as I tried to lift the pram without bashing DS2. I commented to the lady that you would think that someone without a baby could have done it but they all just looked at me blankly like it had never occurred to them.

So does it just not occur to people to help or are they standing there thinking 'bloody pram, why should I help?'

I think it's a cultural thing, English people are incredibly reserved in public. Unless they're not :-)

Was this in the south!?

I think there seems to be a sort of strange competitive herd mentality -either everyone stands there without making any attempt to help or everyone falls over themselves to help. I assume everyone is either thinking "well if no-one else is going to do it, why should I?" or "Oops, someone else is helping, I am going to look bad."

I had to get a sleeping DS1 off the tube yesterday and couldn't manage him and the buggy with DS2 in the sling. I asked someone to help and immediately all the people who had been standing around watching me struggle suddenly started practically fighting each other to help. I almost disappeared beneath the scrum of helpfulness!

Kayano - London, but I don't think it is a London thing, particularly.

I owe millions of thank yous to all the people who have helped me with the ds when i've been struggling on buses (don't do trains much) but i'm a daydream and still feel [embarrassed] that i didn't help the woman with four kids on the bus i get home from work, by the time i realised she was struggling someone else had offered.

yanbu in those kind of situations people should offer.

just a q though, do people find it rude when they offer & its rejected? i go on the tube a lot and tend to get about 5 offers per journey while going up & down various steps but i prefer now to just get on with it myself cos as someone mentioned sometimes its a hinderence, once 2 girls trying to help with the buggy almost fell me down the stairs as they just picked it up from the front n sped off with it dragging me behind which has put me off..
but i see people thinking wtf when i am bumping a double buggy with a baby & toddler down the stairs, with another small child walking down next to me, and they offer & i say no thanks. but i really hope its not offending ppl when i say no, i dont say it in a grumpy way but tbh people do look confused that i dont want help. obviously dont have time to explain to everyone about being almost dragged down the stairs the other time, and i do say thanks for asking

however i do still think its right for people to offer but not those who dont wait for an answer before grabbing the buggy and manhandling it

That should be and daydreamer

I don't find it rude to have an offer rejected - as long as the rejection isn't rude! I have a small folding buggy these days for DS1 when we are out and about all day, and it is pretty easy to eject him, fold the buggy down and carry it one-handed while DS walks.

Lots of people do offer to help and I generally say no thanks because DS1 tends to dawdle and I don't want to hold someone up, but I always smile and say something like "oh no, thanks, we're fine but thanks for the offer." I have had someone grab the buggy and try to carry it back up the steps I had just carried it down and I did have to shout a bit to get them to come back but I shouted in a grateful manner if that is possible!

I have had rude rejections of help a couple of times but generally from someone who I suspected to be in pain or feeling a bit frazzled so I didn't take it personally.

I think it is a shame when people are rude for no reason as it puts people off asking next time. I suppose all the people at the train might have had rude rejections of help before.

Someone should have helped (and I like to think I would have done) but they were all probably hoping someone else would do it so they didn't lose their place in the queue to get on and find that all the seats had gone by the time they finished helping with the buggy. How full was the train?

Not full at all, Aniseeda. It was just after the main commuter time. I was the last one on and still got a seat with about 4 or 5 empty seats left.

People should offer but they won't. Whether it's shyness, ignorance or reluctance in case their offer is misunderstood - who knows?

When I was struggling with a toddler, a baby, double buggy and shopping, I used to ask for help and it was almost always given generously.

Kungfupanda just realised you were the op. oops sorry.
I have had random people decide without asking to help me, decide they should.
one man picked up dd's bugg as I was bumping it up the steps......then told her off for sticking her tongue out at him!! I really wanted to hit him as not only did he scare her, she has CP and was tongue thrusting !!
and as for the man who did the same with her wheelchair, without warning lifted it so high and fast. I went flying in a heap......in the bank .

YANBU, most people (in London anyway) are just so self absorbed they have no idea what is going on around them. My dd1 is now 7 and will still get knocked around in a crowd when they are all like lemmings filing out of the tube station exit we pass on the way to school.

Also I learnt ealy on to get off buses and trains backwards with buggy so to avoid the possibility of tipping.

YANBU to wonder but it would really frustrate me not only to see nobody helping but also to see the woman not asking for help.

It is like people who complain that people didn't move their bag off the seat so they could sit down on a bus. Go over and say, 'excuse me, is anyone sitting here?' I have done this a number of times because people just don't see you, they are in their own world and stressed/tired/worried about their own lives.

There are lots of people who don't care enough to help. But most, IME, do, and sometimes just need it pointed out to them.

I have to say I always get loads of offers of help on public transport, often from the people you'd least imagine. A gang of lads once - all on train going to football, very rowdy, clearly bit drunk, swearing etc - but they stepped aside when wanted to get off, one helped with buggy, another carried my bags - I was amazed. And teenagers too, they've offered to help, which is incredible because I'm sure I was much too self-absorbed as a teenager!

I get the northern line to work every day and that means that spend 8/10 jorneys with at least 4 people touching me more than anyone other than my husband does on a day to day basis. I mean my arms are pinned to my side and i am relying on them holding me up.

I do try to be helpful, smile, offer seats and assistance but you know, sometimes i am just so grateful to get on and get a seat (once in a 20 journey occurence) that i just zone out. It's not personal and i feel guilty when i notice someone that needs a seat more than i do but when i do notice, i do offer (apart from the women who are in that borderline zone of fatness).

So spare a thought for us who deal with the fucking tube during commuting hours everyday.

I remember years ago, transitting through Charles De Gaulle airport in Paris, on the day when part of the terminal collapsed. It was terrifying, and the whole place was in chaos. I was with my brother and sister, and we were travelling with my Dad, as we had been to see his family. There was a young Mum, with 3 children under 5, and as people were running, she was finding it a terrible difficulty, as people were pushing her and her children aside in their panic to get out. I always remember my Dad telling us to help her, and him taking her little boy to help get them into a less frantic part of the building, and her gratefulness. She still writes to our parents at Christmas, and I always remember her gratitude.

That lengthy, and somewhat tipsy story is to say that I now always offer to help, as I remember how difficult the situation was. When my own DD was tiny, we didn't travel a whole lot on public transport, but I did remember being hugely thankful to people who did help. Rather unsurprisingly, in my experience, it's mostly other women who have helped me - probably because they know what it's like to be stuck with a little one and a pram!

I was in M and S once and an old lady fell down the escalator from about half way down. there were a good 5 or 6 people in front of me but none of them helped her . So I had to barge past them and pick the old duck up. Luckily she was OK bless her, just embarrassed.

But on the other and a very nice young man helped dp and I as we were struggling with two dds and a buggy at the station the other day. restored my faith a little.

dp and me

gah!

I always asked for help when I needed it in London. It always worked.

I did have a very over-enthusiastic helper one day who nearly killed me and DS - I said to him, no thanks, I'm OK (pram on the escalator), he pulled it on anyway and then promptly fell on it. Silly person.

Oh, my favourite ever - I had 2.5 year old DD, 10 month old DS1 in a Spica cast, a double buggy and No Sleep Ever, and I decided to take them to the Natural History Museum. The route I chose (step free) was closed, so I had to go on another line with no lifts. Cue me handing random babies/ picnics/ bags/ double buggy to people. "Could you just hold this?"

Everyone was very nice but I expect they all thought I was a bit odd.
I am SO glad I regained my sanity.

I always found the people most likely to help were older teen boys, men in their early twenties. Kind if busts the myth about the youth of today

2shoes - I had a very nice staff member in the leisure centre where DS1's nursery is help me down the steps with the pram on one of the half dozen times we actually used it. He lifted it a bit enthusiastically which would have been fine if I had strapped DS in properly.

I had to catch him by his ankle just before he hit the ground head first...

Jenstar that made me cry. I do have posts on another thread about panicking about those kinds of situations though. Hearing about people like your dad help me enormously

I always offer but am always refused. I still offer, though.

I've always found that in London on the Tube people are if anything more helpful than out of london - I think ebcasue public transport is such a way of life