To be upset with exH about car seat?

[Minstrelsaremarvellous]

I've just found out that ExH is using a booster seat (no back/sides or head support) for our 4yr old DD. I have her in a proper car seat and I'm really safety conscious about things like this. He has got 2 other children and so has probably put her in the booster to get all the kids in his car but he drives a massive Volvo 4x4. Not sure how to handle it. I'm assuming it's legal?

We still use a full seat for DH's 6 ur old son and he's big for his age. However, as they were so expensive, we decided that rather than getting 2 cheap (and potentially not as safe) seats, we'd club together with DH's ex-wife and get a good seat which we shared. Wherever DS went, the seat came with him! Was a bit of extra baggage to carry in and out of the car but his safety was the most important thing. In the meantime, DH's ex has downsized her car and has a slightly smaller seat but we gave her half the money for hers and kept the original one which will last for a while. So now we've both paid for two halves of a car seat and own one each. Hope that makes sense (and is helpful!)

spg1983 it makes perfect sense and you have both been great, makes perfect sense to put safety first and you have shared the cost equally, great co parenting! :)

most car accidents occur within three miles of the home

And very rarely are there any injuries, let alone fatal ones.. the vast majority of accidents with fatalities happen at high speed, ie motorways, dual carriage ways, anywhere were high speeds occur.

The majority of accidents are low speed collisions.

So long as a seat belt is being worn, a child is not at high risk in slow moving suburban traffic.

I have a seat belt tensioner for use with the booster seat-it ensures a correct fit.

not all booster seats come with a bit that adjusts the seat belt i think is the problem, some have a strap that goes up the back behind the child with a clip to attach the shoulder strap and hold it in the correct place, these must be safer? but a booster with nothing to ensure the seat belt stays in the correct postion wouldt be very good?

did your seat belt tensioner come with the booster seat thegreylady or did you buy it seperately? :)

YANBU

A booster seat offers the absolute minimum protection for that age a child. If he has enough money to own a 4x4 Volvo, then he can afford to spend a bit on a proper seat. Having a big car does not make it safe. In fact a big car is more likely to roll over and throw DC from the booster seat, with disastrous consequences!

I can't stand the attitude many parents have about car safety. A child's body is in no way able to cope with the massive forces involved in a crash and a good seat would make all the difference. Sure, you might spend the money and never have a crash, but what if you do have a crash and your stupid decision kills your own child!

I kept my DCs facing rearwards in seats imported from Scandinavia until they were 5 years old (seats now available in the UK). Yes it costs extra, but it is my decision to drive them around in a deadly metal box at my leisure, not theirs!

My big 5 year old is massively unsafe in a booster with a back on, he virtually balanced on the end of it, he can only use a booster cushion type.
I hope all you parents that are keeping your children in car seats that are not made to take their age/weight understand it actually more dangerous for a child to be in a car seat that is too small than to not be in one at all. A booster with a back on is not designed to be used by a 7 or 8 year old.

actually some are, we specifically bought ones that were, they are designed to be used up the age of 11 and the back is fully adjustable in height and width. so you chance the settings as they get bigger, some i agree are very narrow and a child wouldnt fit in them properly but we deliberatly bought adjustable ones that are wide.

plus my 7 and 9 yr olds are very skinny and so weight wise they are perfectly safe and they need the extra support and cushioning i think they are both tall but slight.

that should be chanGE the settings.

and a , after they need the extra support and cushioning i think

YABU - it's legal. We have a prob with OH's ex as she goes mental if we put DSD1 in a booster in the front seat (she is 7 and v tall).

The journey is a couple of hundred miles and DSD1 gets very car sick in the back so we put her in the front and I think she just doesn't tell her mum ( who doesn't drive).

actually having just googled the advice for the UK/EU seems to be for a child to be on a booster seat without a back they should weigh 22kg, i dont know many 4 yr olds that weigh that much? and travelling in the front is ok, but they recomend turnign the air bag off, it is safer of course for them to travel in the back.

also when using a booster seat in the front the seat should be moved as far back as it can go. :)

Is it worth emailing him details of how a booster is with a back is much safer?

Skybluepearl, I'm going to chat to him this weekend and share my concerns. My Dd is only 16kg and I really do want her to be as safe as poss. As I said previously, I'm not going to go mental, but just make sure he understands why I'm unhappy.

Sensuallettuce - my DD doesn't get car sick. I do drive and the more I think about it, there are some standards that I can ask to be upheld. Safety isn't one thing that I'm going to ignore and if my DD was told not to tell me things I'd be deeply disappointed if I found out. Not the best way to forge ongoing trust between divorced parents.

He's her dad, so gets to choose what he feels is right while he has her...

The catinthehairnet, I don't really agree that it is that simple. While we are divorced she is still 'our' daughter. Imagine, As she gets older if he lets her snort drugs at his house would you accept that because it's his choice?
I believe this is a safety concern, if I don't have this conversation with my ExH and something were to happen then I won't have at least tried to do the best thing for our DD.

As long as he's not breaking the law, then I can't see there's anything you can do. Can you talk to him in a non-accusatory way? Perhaps saying you read something online today about the importance of side-protection in car seats, for example.

It's worth noting that many car seats and booster seats with back/sides don't offer side-protection, even though they look as though they do. The sides are very often there just to give a cocooning effect and prevent the head from lolling if the child falls asleep, but the extra level of safety in a side-impact crash is negligible. Always look at the description to see if side-impact protection is actually included.

My own DC, who are five, are on booster seats (no backs/sides) FWIW. They were kept in their five-point harnesses until they grew out of them at about 4 years, 9 months.

Keepingupwiththejoneses

If your booster with a back is "massively" unsafe, why don't you get a seat with side impact protection that isn't massively unsafe.

OP. to avoid confrontation, could you lend your DDs seat from your car whilst she is with ex? Or buy a second seat for his car?

I don't agree that it is acceptable that just because something is legal it is acceptable. It is legal for an 18 year old to drink 10 pints a night every night of the week, but as a parent you would probably want to do something about it! There are plenty of things where the legal minimum is way below where the level of protection we might way to afford our children. A 4 year old can walk across the road without tripping, but I bet we all hold their hand "just in case"!

Technodad I agree, and I am going to chat to ExH (am not going to 'go off on one' it won't get me very far!). I'm sure (I hope!) he'll understand. I also understand his set up is legal so he's not obliged to change anything.

Just to add a little more (slightly off topic but I think relevant).

There is an acronym used in industry safety management titled "ALARP", which stands for "As Low As Reasonably Practicable".

This is basically a mindset or process which looks at possible accidents and asks the simple question: "Have I made the risk of injury or damage as low as reasonably possible"

What this means is that if a company has an accident and someone is injured or died then come the inquest, if they have done everything reasonable to minimise the risk of that accident then the CEO is not likely to go to jail.

Clearly the word "Practicable" and "Reasonable" are very dependant on the individual company / person. Using BP as an example, its seems (allegedly) that they could have done more to protect the drilling platform in the USA that blew up last year and the US Government is hauling them over the coals for it.

I don't expect parents to be thinking about an inquest, but more what their family would think if the worst would happen. So if my child were have his spine crushed during an accident at some traffic lights when another driver jumped the lights and drove into the side of the car, would my family think I did all that was reasonable to minimise the likelihood of that injury. If my 4 year old is ONLY in a booster seat and I have a spare £80 in the bank which could have been better spent on a new car seat rather than on saving up for a new LCD TV, then the answer would likely be "NO" - because mitigating injury to my child is more important than getting a new TV!

If you can afford a big 4x4 Volvo, then you can likely afford £80 without too much difficulty. Would it be reasonable to sell the Volvo and buy the most modern Volvo with the best safety standards for £50,000, No, that is not a practicable thing for most people. It is all about a sensible approach to the decision.

"My kid doesn't fit the cheap seat we got him so I took the back off" - is not a reasonable and sensible decision, if you have £80 in the bank - it is not "ALARP". However, if you are unemployed and struggling to pay the bills, it is wholly reasonable and is "ALARP".

Like I say, this is an industry process and not mine. But we should all be able to justify our decisions based upon having thought about all the factors.

misterl the info i found when googling recomends that childrne do NOT go on a booster alone until they wiegh at least 22 pref 25kg, before then they should have one with a back and sides and a decent one like a maxi cosi rodi etc DOES offer side impact protection and they hold the seat belt in the correct position which is important for comfort and safety.

i agree technodad we have always bought the best we could afford not the cheapest that will 'do the job', its something i wont cut corners on.

If you have a booster cushion in the centre seat & then a high back & sides seat either side of it, does this offer some side impact protection? Obviously with the biggest child in it. We couldn't get 3 high backs across our scenic. We only have 2 dc now (small 4yo & a 2yo both in harness type group1) but wonder what we would do with 2. Could get an infant carrier in the middle ok but would struggle when dc3 went into big seat.

Booster cushions use to be either group 2 or group 3 but according to here they no longer make seats that are just one or the other so the booster cushions now made are all for a minimum weight of 15kgs. My 2 (age 5 and 8) are still in high backed boosters and both fit in them fine (maxi cosi rodi xr) but I do have a couple of booster cushions for when i take other children in the car as i dont have the space (or cash) to carry spare hbb.

Sorry, meant what we would do with 3 children. Also I sometimes drive dds friend, average size 4yo. Her mum gives me her high back booster & she sits in the front with the airbed ON because she is forward facing. Is that ok? I thought airbag off is only for rare facing babies.

Rear!