to wonder why we say sorry?

[IAmBooyhoo]

i'm struggling with the idea of apologies at the moment so this is really me trying to work out how i feel about it out loud so to speak. feel free to ignore or throw in your own take if you like.

for me i feel that saying sorry really only benefits the person saying it. it makes them feel better about what they have done. they feel as if they have, in part or in full, made amends. which is fine, because saying sorry is a big part of learning from or actions and it is a really important step if you want to change and move on but does it actually benefit the person who has been wronged at all? i know that when i feel i have been wronged i feel as if i am owed an apology. i often hear it on tv etc that "you owe him an apology". it is good to know that they regret their actions and the hurt they caused and i think it is important that even though that person may be sorry they should still make it clear to the person they hurt but i'm not sure i understand why i feel this way.

if i explain why i am questioning this maybe it will make things clearerand some of you could help me understand my feelings.

a family member 'wronged' me last year. not just me but i can only talk about me. we haven't seen or spoken to each other since but this person has apologised to the other people involved, has apologised to my mother twice even though my mother wasn't present or involved, has told my mother how sorry they are both times and asked my mum how to put it right with me. my mum obviously said that apologising to me would be the place to start. so i know this person is sorry, i beleive they really do regret their actions and i believe they know how hurt i was. it has been 6 months since the incident but no attempt has been made to apologise (we live 5 minutes apart, they have my address, phone number etc). i am guessing that this person is just finding it really hard to face me and the longer they leave it the harder it becomes. which is fine. i have felt like this before and understand the conflict they are going through. but that makes me think that the the apology isn't for my benefit at all. if the apology was meant to help me or make amends with me then surely it would have happened as soon as the person felt sorry? if it is taking until they are ready to apologise doesn't that mean that the apology is purely a tool to make them feel better?

also, i will accept the apology when/if it is offered, as i said, i believe there is regret but it wont change how i feel about that person. it wont change the relationship we now have (non existant). it wont change the fact that i wont ever trust them again. so what use is an apology to me? why do i feel like i am owed one even though it wont help me at all? am i accepting it to help them? to take the weight of their shoulders?

i absoloutely believe they should apologise but i can't explain why i believe that.

i am aware that my feelings about this incident are probably affecting how i feel about the thing in general. in fact, i hadn't given apologies a second though until recently when i realised just how useless this particular apology would be for me.

any thoughts on this? am i the only person who thinks this way?

I think if an apology is sincerely meant it benefits both parties. It relieves the offender of some guilt and makes them feel like they've made amends to some extent. For the offended person it lets them know that their feelings of hurt and annoyance are valid and recognised. An apology is only really worthwhile though when the offender honestly means that they won't ever do that again. If they can't be trusted not to do the same thing again then apology is pretty worthless IMO.

The issue I think with your family member is that what they did has changed your view of them. An apology will validate your feelings but it won't cause you to forgive them. Perhaps the offender is so ashamed that they can't bring themselves to apologise? Or perhaps because they know you won't forgive them they feel the apology might be insulting to you, in the sense that it won't change anything?

I get what you're saying.

In one of Elizabeth Goudge's books (and I'm trying to remember which one) the main character is referring to an (unnoticed) wrong she did to someone many years ago. Her son asks her if she had ever thought of confessing and she replies something along the lines of:
"I saw no reason why I should confess my crime and be forgiven for it. It would entirely be for my benefit to be forgiven and then I would not need to feel guilty. However X would have suffered greatly on the knowledge of what I did. Confessing and being forgiven is entirely for the person confessing."

Not sure I agree with it. However there are times it is true, particularly if the person saying sorry uses it as a way of turning themselves into the victim.

And now I'm feeling very irritated I can't remember the book. I think I've lent it to dm...

I think that situation is different though DeWe. I'm not sure but is the situation one in which the offended person doesn't know anything wrong was done? In that case I don't see the point in drawing someone's attention to it, as that would hurt them unnecessarily.

"An apology is only really worthwhile though when the offender honestly means that they won't ever do that again. If they can't be trusted not to do the same thing again then apology is pretty worthless "

yes thsi i agree with which is perhaps why i am struggling this particular apology (not that it exists yet). i think this person is sorry for what they did to me. i don't believe however that they will change their behaviours to prevent it happening again (it has happened before but never to me). i think this person see their particular actions on that occasion as wrong but doesn't see a need to put preventative measures in place (stop drinking for example).

"An apology will validate your feelings but it won't cause you to forgive them."
i think this is also contributing to me feelings about the apology being redundant as far as i am concerned. i already know my feelings are valid. i am 100% sure that i was justified in feeling hurt and wronged. i dont doubt that and i think meybe that is why is am seeing the apology as unnecessary in a way.

I think in your case an apology would be insulting and pointless. If you are pretty definite that the same thing could well happen again in the future then all the apology means is "I want you to stop being annoyed at me," which, as you've said, only benefits the offender.

A sincere apology can be of real value. But you can't expect other people to be the messenger. So, OP, if your family member really wants to put things right, the least they owe you is a face to face conversation. Getting your mother to be the go-between suggests a certain cowardice.

Apologies are not always easy. But they are the consequence of facing up to your actions.

yes i think itt will be a means to an end. the person told my mother that it was awful how we weren't talking and that it needed to stop. my mother told them that it neede to be put right and that was when they asked how to do it. (which i'm sorry but i find that ridiculous coming from an adult) i feel like if an apology does come it will be them "doing their bit" to reinstate the status quo and that there will be an expectation on me to accept and then go back to how it was which cant happen. i have to protect myself and my children.

Can I ask what the incident was?

i was assaulted. not badly but it shattered a trust completely. alot was said aswell.

:( An apology is not enough for something like that. I think in your position I would find it extremely hard to forgive, especially if I felt the person was still a danger to me. In fact, I think unless I could see that the person was fully reformed and totally unlikely to assault anyone again, that it would be foolish to let them back into my life.

Are you coming under pressure from your family to forgive this person?

no, i have made it clear that i wont be letting them back in. i have said that i am done with it. the whole thing has been hushed up and TBh i'm not sure who else in the family (apart from my parents/sister and thsoe that were present which were this persons family and obviously took their side) knows, their partner doesn't even know it happened so i suspect that this person wants things to be back to normal so that no questions are asked as to why there is a rift. i think my insistence that they stay out of my life will be preceived as anger or holding a grudge but i really truly am not angry anymore. i have dealt with that and it is to protect myself and my children. i cannot ever risk that they would see what happened to me or be victim of it themselves. as i said, i dont trust that this wont happen again so i have no choice.

I think you are doing the right thing. I know it's very tough, especially when others are questioning your actions and there's a tendency to hush things up.

thank you.i think my doubts about apologies are really only about this one TBH. as i said i never considered them before and the recent conversation with my mum (she had spoken to the person recently) got me thinking about how i would react to the apology if it arrived. i have known all along that i woldn't allow them ack in my life but i wasn't sure if i was going to accept the apology or not. i thought i had decided to as that is the decent and the only thing i can do in this situation but i'm not sure anymore after thinking it through on this thread. i think i was deciding to accept it for fear that if i didn't i would be seen as being petty and keeping the bad feelings going, i wouldn't be doing it for me. but my feelings now are that it isn't a genuine apology as i first stated. i think this person regrets that their actions were as extreme and as public as they were. i think they regret that it has damaged their relationship with my mother, and i think the apology would be because that is what is expected, but i dont think it will ever be a genuine apology in a sense that they wont change except perhaps it will be a different person who gets the brunt of it next time.

I think it's perfectly right and understandable not accept an apology if it's not sincerely meant. If people question you on it, all you need to say is that you don't think X will change so you don't think the apology is worth anything. I really don't understand why people put up with shit just to "keep the peace." My family are the masters of this sort of stupid behaviour.

yes my family is the same, and i usually go along with what is expected to keep the peace bt this time i dont think i can. what happened to me really awakened someting in me. that person is a bully and always was but because it had never been directed at me i didn't ever assert myself with them, i think maybe this is why they felt they could do what they did that time, because they knew i wouldn't stand up for myself. i know if i jsut accepted the apology because it was expected then i would be letting myself be bullied, in a far milder way, into something i am not comfortalble doing. it is a non-issue at the minute as no apology is on the horizon but i think i will only know when it does arrive whether it is genuine or not. right now i dont feel i will accept.

From what you say I doubt any apology will ever be genuine. I know how hard it is to stand against this kind of thing. I couldn't so I just left, which I know is rather cowardly. I admire you for being so resolute in standing up to this crap.

i have to. i wont let my children be bullied and how can i do that if i am letting myself be bullied?

thank you for talking this through with me. you are one of a few posters on MN who really take time to listen and care.

Awww

I was keen to help you because I know what a lovely poster you are

aww shucks. look at us getting all soppy