to think that shops should have some compassion?

[Dottydooda]

I've recently toilet trained my 2 year old. On a number of occasions when we've been out, we've (inevitably) had to search for a public loo quickly. As I have a 10 month old in tow as well, this can prove to be rather interesting at times.

That aside, twice now I've been out in a shop (- Halfords and Waitrose to be exact) DD1 needed a loo. I had no choice but to ask the shop assistants who have responded that there are no loos.

Now, I know that legally this cannot be true and I understand them not wanting to share their loos with any Tom, Dick or Harry but when I'm standing there stressing, baby in one arm, toddler crossed legged and bursting on the other - AIBU to think that they could break their little rules to help their customers instead of lying outright? These 2 stores must get a lot of their custom from families with young children after all.

I was tempted to encourage a little puddle on their shop floor in retaliation :o

They are telling the truth - there are no public loos in the store. And it's not reasonable for them to let you (who I'm afraid are 'any Tom Dick and Harry' ie random member of the public) into the staff-only areas. They also might not have staff available to supervise you in the non-public areas.

MaccyD's is always good for a loo break, and a cafe which provides loos for its customers is fairly likely to bend a rule to let a desperate non-customer use them.

DS needed a major nappy change when in B&Q with DH recently. DH simply asked a member of staff if there was anywhere he could change him and they took him straight to the staff loo.

Apparently it was grim.

it's one of things you have to do i'm afraid. pull ups, spare clothes, potty, extra pair of hands, anti bac spray, tissues, more pants, another pair of hands

or shop online

It'd be great if there were more public lavs. But actually, there aren't. So one of the less lovely bits of toilet training does involve taking a potty/using bushes or, if on a longer shopping trip, making more visits to the available lavs than you might think necessary.

Our local Waitrose is lovely but small. Their staff facilities are upstairs in an area that the public can't use. They are always apologetic and always point out that the public lavs are 100 yards away. But ultimately, when taking a partly trained small child out and about you've got to be prepared for the inevitable unexpected need to wee. Or worse!

They are not lying - they are simply stating they have no public toilets, yes I would imagine they have staff toilets, for the staff.

As a side note I remember having the misfortune to use a staff toilet at a garage once, my DS had used it first and said it was a bit dirty. Dear god it was like something out of those programmes you see on TV like Life of Grime. Dirt and strange fluids everywhere.

Its a pity they can't see the situation and break the rules. You need to plan shopping with an idea of which have loos (I'm suprised Waitrose didn't, most supermarkets do don't they?). Boots and M&S usually a good bet, department stores... where else? Generally any shop that has an in-store cafe will have a loo.

The one shop where a puddle on the floor is OK (the staff actually appreciate being told rather than another customer stepping in it) is Pets at Home, but you'd have to pretend a dog had made it. Now there's a store that understands the needs of its customers!

whackamole - I certainly see it as my responsibility, I'm not sure asking for the use of a loo means that I'm shirking this.

Hats off to you - you must be amazingly organised with 3 little ones which I have to say, most of the time I am. It was just one of those situations - no buggy, no back up plan. I must be having an off day again :)

Thanks for suggestions of travel potty - I'll look into this.

Sorry I think YABU. Not so much because of insurance issues but because if staff have been told they can't let customers use staff loos, then it is unfair to expect them to risk their job and let you and your DC use their loo.

Also I know in a shopping centre near us the staff loos are actually shared amongst a number of smaller shops. You actually have to go into a back area that is owned by the shopping centre and I imagine any shop letting customers use this could get into real trouble.

I used to work in a shop and we seemed to spend most of the day taking customers children to the toilet :) . It did mean going upstairs, through the stock room, past the staff private possessions and into our rather grim toilet, but we did it anyway.

I was caught out when visiting a new centre for training a couple of months ago and could not get into the training centre for a wee (too early) and the only shop open was Waitrose. A lovely member of staff escorted me to their staff toilets, which I was very happy about.

Having said that ... I can fully understand why shops don't allow this and I'm afraid when you're out and about with toilet training children (as I have been on many occasions) you need to be prepared.

Oh Grimma I actually TROD in a no.2 that some arsewipe had allowed his dog to do in Pets at Home! Staff were wonderful.

YABU it's not a 'little' rule. Allowing access to non public areas is a risk, think cash office/stock. Surely the staff need and area they know their not going to meet customers.

Just because families are customers why should you have free rein. Also why having a 10 month old means they should be more lenient? That surely means you are less able to transport two DC to the staff toilets and make customer toilets more appropriate for you.

Get a colapsable potty, job done.

YABU.

It is a big insurance issue, compassion has nothing to do with it. My Mum has a small shop, she is always getting people with small children ask if they can use her toilet. But to get there, they have to go through the stockroom, which is piled high with stock. If something were to fall on a child, or if someone were to accidentally break something, my Mum would at best be out of pocket, at worst lose her business. She isn't insured to have people out the back. Apart from anything else, she can't watch the front of the shop at the same time as the back of the shop so is opening herself wide open to be stolen from.

No doubt the parents that she has turned away think she should show some compassion too. Despite the fact that there is a cafe with toilets over the road, and better planning is really not that hard. But that would mean paying for a drink, or inconveniencing yourself for a couple of weeks while your child becomes more confident.

That goes with bigger shops too, because there is no reason why parents cant plan toilet stops regularly in town centres.

Also you won't have been the first - or last - person to ask to use their staff toilet for a toddler that day.

You have to draw the line. When I worked in retail our boss screamed the one time a colleague let someone use our toilet with a toddler.
I know the 'computer says no' attitude, as you put it, must've been upsetting with two little ones, but you can't expect anyone to risk getting in serious trouble with their boss (or even risk their job if it's an insurance issue!) for a customer.

It has nothing to do with compassion.
I would be risking h&s,insurance etc if I allowed the public to use the loo. Also,there is a safe,staff's belongings,stock etc away from a shop floor. We also have CCTV & would have a call very quickly from our head office to ask why there was a random woman & children in the back of house.
Yabu.

Interesting to read this thread after the one about a 3 year old with a UTI being brought to tears by someone telling him off for weeing on some wasteland. I am left wondering what we can do when no public loo if we can't let our potty trained / training toddler use the toilet in a shop and we can't let them wee in the street.

A lot of people suggesting portable potties here but they are very bad for the environment and I would rather hold my child over a drain in absence of a public loo.

We are strictly forbidden from letting anyone use our staff washroom,no exceptions at all,I got caught short with my ds once and the sales assistant in next helped me out and allowed him to use their staff washroom.
I always feel bad saying no but I would get in serious trouble if I let someone upstairs.
YABU.

To get to our staff loo you have to go straight through the staffroom so obviously members of the public cannot be allowed access.

When this has been explained to parents, we have on more than one occasion been asked on one of us would take the child to the toilet! No way!!

Of course we feel bad about refusing a child access to the toilet, but the risks to the employees belongings or jobs, and to the business, far outweight the upset of wet or soiled pants.

Have this at the moment with three year old DD2. Luckily I now know that her pee muscles are quite developed when it comes to holding it in and "I need to go NOW" usually gives us ten minutes grace!

What I do at the moment is only plan to go places with her where public loos are not far away, or there is at least somewhere she could go such as behind a tree.

ghoul interesting that you say portable potties are bad for the environment, I didn't know that. Can you explain why?

I was in rural France last year when my dd was caught short. We were in a bank and when the staff heard her saying she needed the toilet, in increasingly urgent tones, they ushered us to the staff toilets (straight past the safes ) they couldn't have been kinder.

I think it is fecking ridiculous...and completely jobs worth to not allow a child to use the toilet. I think its a cultural thing. Most of ours local shops are nor owned by british people...I think I've used the look in just about every single one of them!

I hear what you say about H&S and insurance-that needs ammending doesn't it. If I was working were the public asked to use the loo, I would ignore instructions and allow children

Even if it meant possibly losing your job bejeezus?

Lainey - Just because you have to use a bag and absorbent pad for every wee and it seems a bit overkill. I guess it's similar to nappy waste but worse than say weeing in a drain. I also think it seems a bit of a faff carting a potty around all the time on the off chance there won't be a toilet when needed.

Yes Lesley

With her attitude, it'd probably be a blessed relief. Excuse the pun.