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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be annoyed a whole sick day is recorded as a part time worker?

50 replies

PavlovtheCat · 16/03/2012 09:34

Grrr. I know that 'officially' I am, but bloody logically, it's just so bloody anal.

I work 3 full days, and on a Friday for 2.5 hours. However, those 2.5 hours are random, in that, I sometimes work longer hours on those other days due to child are, or because my work makes it so, and then I take those hours back on a Friday. I have Thursdays off officially.

This week, I was not going to work on either Thursday (my day off) or friday (toil). then I needed to go into work on Thursday for 1 hour, on my day off for a court related matter

Unfortunately, I was sick, so this court related matter was covered by another colleague (that was fine, as that colleague was there anyway, just would have been better for me to be there).

My manager was not around, but had she been, she would very likely have just told me that as this was my official day off and as I am on schedule for my hours this month (have like 10 hours toil to take) to just not record it as working, or something. As if I had not been required to do that hour and sick on my day off, not relevant.

So in her absence I called the absence recording line just to be sure I recorded so did not get into trouble. They said that as I was expected in, it would be recorded as sick. Fine. But that it would be recorded as one whole day sick. Not a proportion of my part time working hours.

I was at Christmas for one week with a slipped disc. So taking into account the bank holiday, this has been recorded as 3 whole days, which is almost all my hours, not the actual 17.5 hours I was actually sick (tues, wed, 2.5hrs fri). I have two other sick days from June ( full days so no concerns there).

So add to this the whole additional day recorded for yesteday, this now means I have been sick 6 days in total. When in fact it has been 18.5hours which is 2.5 days or so! My maths is probably slightly out but you get my point.

But,because full days have been recorded, it means I may now be on the threshold for disciplinary process due to number of days off.

when it comes to my annual leave, they convert my days into proportionate hours so if for example I took 2.5 hours, I don't take a days leave, I take 2.5 hours off my total. And if I worked a scheduled 10 hours (which some pt colleagues do) I take that time off not just one day. So they don't lose out. So why not do it for sickness, convert it to hours so it is accurate.

Part timers get such a raw deal.

OP posts:
Original poster
PavlovtheCat · 16/03/2012 09:41

Actually, no thats not true, one day and 2.5 hours. So that is...
One day 7.5 hours.
One day 2.5 hours
Two days 7.5 hours
One day 2.5 hours
One day 1 hour.
So that is 21 hours, which is recorded as 6 days, which is full time equivalent of 44.5 hours.

OP posts:
Original poster
PavlovtheCat · 16/03/2012 09:47

That last post, first bit relates to June. 2 days one was 7.5hrs and one 2.5hrs.

OP posts:
larks35 · 16/03/2012 09:49

That does seem unfair particularly if it automatically puts a disciplinary process in place. Is it worth putting your concerns in writing to your HR department or equivalent? If they expect flexibility from you it is only fair they respond in kind.

mistlethrush · 16/03/2012 09:52

I agree, doesn't seem appropriate.

Original poster
PavlovtheCat · 16/03/2012 09:52

Oh I intend to! Even if it does not take me to threshold. Because, this applies to all my part time colleagues so others may have already been, or may be in the future as may I even if I don't meet it now (got to work it out). I have had issues before re part time working , relating to training opportunities, and was successful. I think because part time discrimination being statutory law.

OP posts:
MrsMagnolia · 16/03/2012 09:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
PavlovtheCat · 16/03/2012 09:54

I do acknowledge that my post was ver ver long...

OP posts:
squeakytoy · 16/03/2012 09:56

As thursday is not your official working day, I cant understand why you called in sick?

Original poster
PavlovtheCat · 16/03/2012 10:00

I agree it should but not. Couple years ago, I had to take one week off work due to having a nose op after breaking my nose,for which I had two days off. 7 days recorded as sick, although part time. I had said I would be unable to work for two of those days that week due to pain swelling, but as other days were unsure if ok or not, could I take them as annual leave. No, had to be recorded as sick, although I was able to work in the end but did not want to show up with black eyes!

My current manager would have recorded it as toil if it was official working day for just one hour, but a I said, she was not in, and as it was court related anoth manager might have noticed by absence and the don't know my work pattern so might have thought I was off all day so did not want to wait til Monday to discuss with my own manager, in case they recorded it as unauth absence.

OP posts:
Original poster
PavlovtheCat · 16/03/2012 10:03

squeaky I just commented on tha x-posts. Other managers would not see it that way if the don't know my shift pattern. I phoned the line expecting them to say this does not need to be recorded. I was formally expected in court, so not just a popping in ony day off. Sick line view was that as I was expected in, day off or not, then it is a sick absence as I was unable to do my job as expected.

OP posts:
Original poster
PavlovtheCat · 16/03/2012 10:07

squeaky employers are so harsh on formalities I did not was to just not turn up, when expected and not have it recorded what had happened. I did talk to colleague who needed to cover me, but he is not a manager. several colleagues knew I was coming in on that day and would have noticed my absence.

I agreeon hindsight I should just have left it, but concerned that on Monday I would be In Trouble for not keeping in touch.

OP posts:
mistlethrush · 16/03/2012 10:09

In relation to the times you've been off sick on your 2.5hr day, I cannot understand how they can suggest that you have missed 7.5hrs of work when you are only contracted for 7.5. Otherwise they should be paying you for 7.5.

In fact, now I think of it, that is a very good way of making them change their mind if you say that - if they're counting it as a full 7.5hrs off even though you were only contracted for 2.5, you want paying for it in full as you were sick for the whole of the day. Similarly on the day when you were expected in for an hour on your day off - if they persist that it was a full day's sick leave, you need paying a full day's wages.

Original poster
PavlovtheCat · 16/03/2012 10:14

Mistlethrush! I love that! That is in fact v true as I get paid full company sick pay.

I am going to write a letter now to HR, asking them to review all my sick hours recorded and convert them to hours to reflect the actual hours off sick. I will do it regardless of disciplinary.

OP posts:
Original poster
PavlovtheCat · 16/03/2012 10:30

So the threshold is 10 days absence full time, which is 74 hours or 6 seperate absences. To ensure it is fair mine should be recorded in hours, which is 50hrs or 4 separate absences, as the part time equal of full time. Neither of which I meet with 21 hours (if I include the hour yesterday) or 3 separate absences (if I include yesterday as m absence).

Or. 20 hours or 2 absences if I don't count yesterday.

OP posts:
gordyslovesheep · 16/03/2012 10:33

I am on speacial measure because I had 4 days off last November ...I work PT - I had a Dr's not but because it was over 2 weeks (1 day one week and 3 the next) it has been recorded as 12 days - making my sickness 'unacceptable' - OP YANBU it sucks

Original poster
PavlovtheCat · 16/03/2012 10:44

gordy Shock that is appalling! You might want to fight that, do you a union? That is so much worse than my situation, how can four days be 12?!!

I shall absolutely be copying in my union on this matter.

OP posts:
Original poster
PavlovtheCat · 16/03/2012 10:46

In fact. The person I spoke to at the sickness line told me to call on Monday when I am next in work. They better not include today.

OP posts:
sleepsforwimps2010 · 16/03/2012 11:39

my hours are a bit like yours.
I work 3 full days plus 1 x 3hr day. so I work 4 days per week.
my 4 weeks holiday is entitlement is 16 days (4 weeks).
my sick entitlement is 2 weeks prorata or 8 days.
if im off sick on a Monday (my short day). its still 1 day off. on not really understanding your issue here....
if your parttime you get a prorata share of what a fulltime person gets.

Original poster
PavlovtheCat · 16/03/2012 12:03

Sleep, my annual leave is converted into hours, and includes bank holidays, the pro rata of. So, I get something like 240 hours annual leave which would work out to be about 6 or 7 weeks leave (get a lot of leave due to type and longevity of Jon). So. If I take one 7.5 hour day off. I deduct 7.5 hours from that figure. If this is a bank holiday, I take 7.5 days off, of if it is good Friday, 2.5 days, as that is what I would normally work.

Also, my hours are annualised. So I work 25 hours a week, but in reality I have to work 108 hours per month. Seems months I am under and some over, and over the year it equals out. This is the last month of the year, and I am over by 10 hours or so. So they are my hours to take back.

So, in terms if sick, if I work 22.5hrs on my normal working days dand then I am off sick on a day I am not normally scheduled to work, but have been asked to come in for one hour for, how can that then equate to a full day 7.5 hours sick? That means I have been recorded as being expected to work for 30 hours, not 25. It just does not make sense.

(if I had not worked yesterday, or rather, been not been required to work yesterday I would be 1.5 hours under, but as 10 hours toil, this would be taken from that and calculated at the end of the month).

I just don't understand how anything other than recording the hours I work, and the hours I don't work due to leave or sickness can be fair.

OP posts:
Scholes34 · 16/03/2012 12:12

The whole point of a sickness interview, after you've reached the threshold for a "disciplinary" process, is to discuss your sickness record with your employer to see if there are any issues on either side which are causing problems. If it comes to the "disciplinary" process, you'll have an opportunity then to confirm details.

A good employer will be keen to help in any way they can to ensure you're able to do the job to the best of your ability. Some sickness will be more long term than others and you shouldn't be "disciplined" for that. However, if your sickness record is made up of odd days off for a cold, bad stomach, etc, then a more appropriate discussion would take place.

I think you're worrying too much about details that aren't important at this stage and can be rectified in due course if necessary.

Is it a "disciplinary" process or is that your interpretation of it?

gordyslovesheep · 16/03/2012 12:12

Unon are involved there are other issues as well

Original poster
PavlovtheCat · 16/03/2012 12:37

scholes I don't think I am at 'discplinary' stage at this point. But given that I have three prolapsed lumbar discs I could easily be off again in the next few months if my current course of treatment does not work. So I want hours sick to be recorded properly now.

And if they are going to get me to work on my formal day off, and then make it a sick day if I am unwell on that day, I will refuse to work on my days off. So they shoot themselves in the foot as they lose my flexibility.

OP posts:
Original poster
PavlovtheCat · 16/03/2012 12:39

But, My interpretation, it is first stage disciplinary' for anyone who exceeds the 'threshold'. Whatever that is.

OP posts:
Scholes34 · 16/03/2012 13:41

If you do get to the sickness interview stage, use it positively if you are having continuing health issues. Your employer may be able to help in some way.

StealthPolarBear · 16/03/2012 13:45

I agree OP, and often use flexi etc to cover any time I feel sick - your informal working arrangements meant this should have happened IMO.

However, from their point of view, they may need to know how long you've been sick from the pov of supporting you effectively (e.g. we need a docs note after 4 days sick, and those 4 days can include a weekend). Wonder if it's somehing like this.