to ask you if (and how), you would judge me for sending DS back to the UK.

[spikeyduck]

I've spoken about this a couple of times, online and IRL.

So far everyone is being very kind to me. But if someone was telling ME about them planning to do this, I think in my heart I'd be judging them. Certainly I am judging myself - so I thought I'd ask you how you'd respond.

Situation is: A year ago DH's job was seconded abroad. DS1's father initially refused permission for DS to come with us (also have DD1 & DS2 who are younger, DS1 is 12). We considered everything - DS1 strongly wanted to move, but we felt didn't grasp what it would mean fully - and decided to stay, with the proviso that XH take on more care for DS1 who has SN (ADHD and other issues), as I would need to go back to work while DH looked for a new job. XH had had DS every third weekend and for a week each holidays.

XH then said actually we could go after all with various conditions about what school DS attended and where we lived and that we would come back after a set period. So we went, and we've flown DS back multiple times (and XH over). XH is remarried back in the UK.

The period we agreed to (18 months), is coming to an end. DH strongly wants us to remain here for at least as long again for career progression reasons. If it wasn't for DS and XH I'd be 100% behind that. I am a SAHM here and DH works very long hours.

DS is becoming ever more disruptive, violent and aggressive towards fellow students and his siblings here in the UK. He is getting good, appropriate support and help. I am struggling massively. He steals from me, breaks things, is always always angry and aggressive and the younger DCs are beginning to copy him. It is awful.

XH stopped paying maintenance when we moved and we have no extra money. We pay a lot for DS's help due to the health system here. XH doesn't contribute. He earns £60k but he has no legal obligation to support DS abroad and so doesn't.

I don't know if we could get permission to keep DS with us past the consent order's deadline. We would then all have to move back to the UK.

DS says he wants to 'go home' (to the UK), because he hates me, he hates being here, he hates everyone etc.

I have had ENOUGH, seriously.

I am thinking about asking XH if DS can return to the UK and live with him.

I don't know what XH would say. Yes, probably. I don't think he wants DS to live with him (he didn't suggest it during the discussion period), as DS is hard to manage and XH has a very full life with his wife. But part of me feels like I need a break from this and it's XH's fucking turn to deal with DS.

But... surely I am abandoning DS when he needs me most? I can't just send my child away!

Well, what alternatives do you have? If the agreed to time period is up then it seems the options are that:
DS goes back alone and lives with XH
you go back with DS but everyone else stays
everyone goes back, but your DH loses out career-wise

I don't think you have anything to feel guilty about. Your DS does not sound happy where he is so the only decision is whether he goes alone or not and it sounds like the best decision for everyone is that DS goes back alone. Now whether XH agrees to that or not is a different story!

I think that there is nothing wrong with doing what he is telling you he wants - to go to the UK and live with his dad.

He's 12. At that age is it unreasonable to listen to what he wants and make it happen?

"X, Y has decided he wants to come back to the UK and live with you."

As long as he knows that you love him, and that you are making happen what he is asking you to make happen, and that if he changes his mind, you will come and get him in a heartbeat - I honestly don't see how that makes you a bad person.

Something tells me though, that your ex probably won't agree. Stopping maintenance, the swine , trying to control you by putting all these conditions on the move, but I bet that when you say right, he wants to live with you, oh non-maintenance paying dictator - there'll be all sorts of reasons why it's just not possible. My only concern would be how your son would feel if his dad didn't want him.

I am worried that X will (after everything he said before), decide it wouldn't suit. For that reason I feel I can't tell DS what I'm considering in case he gets knocked back.

But isn't it horrible to basically say "I can't cope with DS's behaviour and want to ship him off to a fairly disinterested parent"?

I think perhaps my brain can't process the idea that DS not being with me might be the best thing for him.

No. It's human. We all reach a point from time to time where we feel like we're drowning.

Your son is clearly showing you that he is unhappy. Perhaps that's the cause of his behaviour. If you can put him into a situation that he is happier with, then that's the better parental decision. It doesn't mean you don't love him, it means you love him enough to do what he wants, even though it will hurt you so much.

Can't DS see a child psychologist or child counsellor or something to get to the bottom of his anger?

Perhaps he will be fine with his Dad. Presumably DS has stayed with him often and XH knows him well. If so it sounds worth trying.

I dont think anyone would judge you, this sounds very hard. Good luck x

I think you have a duty of care to your son to help him live his life in a way that will make him happy. If he thinks he'll be happier with his dad, then so be it.

You also have a duty of care to your other children. It's not fair that they should suffer from your son's behaviour and it's very worrying that they are copying him. That needs to stop asap.

You also have a duty of care to yourself. You're living through a nightmare with your son and it can't be good for you.

I think he should go to live with his dad. I don't think his dad will like it, particularly when you don't pay him maintenance.

I wouldn't. Fathers are (can be) equally compentent and loving parents, and I see nothing wrong with a child living with a different parent.

I don't judge you. I would hate to be in your shoes though.
I think your DS returning to the UK would be good for all of you.
Good luck.

just at 12 a court would legally take his opinion into account, and do. OP I have been in a similar situation, 5 years ago ds1, also some sn, was out of control. He was threatening me and ds2, he was running away, carried a knife and had refused his dx of AS and ADHD, which was allowed because he was 12, so we got no support. I was at the end of my tether ds2 has ADHD, ds3 was 1 and was a very sickly baby, in and out of hospital, and showing signs of sn, ex offered for ds1 to live with him, ds1 wanted to so I agreed.
It was the worst thing I have ever done ex let ds do what ever he wanted to while ex got on with his life. DS ended up in trouble with the police, I was seen as the bad guy because I was still trying to get him to do the right things, ds started smoking pot and was caught with it and it just spiralled down hill from there. DS never went to school after year 9 and has got no GCSE's.
DS is now 19 and and is in the second year of an ASBO, has been in and out of hostels. I can not take him back here as SS have warned me that due to ds2 and ds3's sn they would consider removing them as ds1 is considered a danger to his brothers. Tomorrow ds1 is due in court for the umpteenth time, this time, for the 5th offence of getting on a train without paying, because he just has not learned and has such a record he is looking at up to 2 years in prison or at the very least 12 with a tag, was told this last friday by the judge who bailed him for a week while he considered what to do. DS has his own little 1 bed flat so will lose everything if he gets prison.
I wish I had held it together and not let him go, maybe I could have kept him on the straight and narrow if only just.
Don't want to frighten you bit thought you might want to hear how it had gone for someone in a similar situation.

Should have said, knowing what I know and having been there I would never judge you. Good Luck.

I wouldn't judge you. It doesn't have to be forever... if it really doesn't work out either you'd all have to move back or your Ex would have to permit your DS to move back with you

It is hard dealing with some children with SN's - your DS has a Father too - time for him to have a turn. I'd be telling him, not asking him.

Sorry - I hadn't read KeepingUp's post. KeepingUp - it sounds awful :( I am so sorry things are so hard for you & your DS :(

It might go that way - it might go the other way - no one can know until you give it a go. The way things are going it could end up like this if he stays with you :(

To make up for Keeping's really awful outcome, dd's best friend has an older half brother who came to live with them when he was about 13 because he wasn't happy with his mother, he has just graduated from a good university and is about to join the RAF and now has an excellent relationship with his mother.

That is great fuss he sounds like he is doing well for himself. I am not saying it would go the same way as mine, I have heard of many other kids doing really well after moving to live with another parent. I just related to the OP saying ex was living a full life with his new wife and this is what happened with my ex. Ex thought that as ds was 14 he would just conform and fit in, he didn't think he needed to 'parent' him at that age, boy was he wrong!