With the schools timekeeping policies? *LONG!*

[Debeez]

My son attends a primary school, it's not great but our options are limited. High proportion of students are from less than nurturing backgrounds and lateness is a big issue for the school. Sometimes on the walk home I see parents toddling up at 9:30 regularly.

For this reason they've instigated a lateness book where by if the child is late a parent must sign them in giving the reason for lateness. Previous system simply involved signing in. As we discovered the signing in is accompanied by a lecture.

I abhor lateness and my son has never been late. To be honest the school's timekeeping is rubbish (meant to be in at 8:55), often they don't get shouted in until 9:05 (which is awful when you have to rush off to work!). Unfortunately we recently got a taste of the late book along with 10 other parents. The school called the children in at 8:50 on a bad weather day and closed the doors on the rest of us.

Many parents are wise to the letting in early so take them up ridiculously so in order to get home/work quicker so plenty of children did get in on time. We refused to give a reason for lateness (we signed in for health and safety reasons obviously) and maintained we weren't late. The clock behind the receptionist showed it was not 8:55 yet and she refused to turn round and look at it.

It all got a bit heated with parents shouting and arguing so we just shoved DS through the door after we'd signed him in and left. Didn't want to be the shouty embarrassing parent.

I think it's awful that my son has a late mark against his name and I think this makes us look like we don't care for timekeeping. Bringing things up with the school is an exercise in futility. Do I just be earlier knowing we'll be standing around in the cold. Or do I be an absolute pain on point of principle and record the schools timekeeping and perhaps go to BoG from there?

That's out of order of them to do that.

I would write a letter to the Chair of Governors (get other parents to do the same) and point out that none of you were actually late.

Sorry to avoid drip feeding they are only let in early in bad weather and they are meant to keep the doors open until 8:55. Also they are out late EVERY evening and I mean by a good 10 minutes. Obviously I'm happy to wait for my son, I am rather fond of him, but it's miserable in the cold.....

I think you need to separate the issues though

If you're going to write to the Chair, I wouldn't mention them being out late of an evening because that might be misconstrued as you saying 'therefore why should we bring them on time'

Quite simply you were asked to sign a late book when you weren't late and that shouldn't happen.

I wouldn't worry about it tbh. If you DS has one late mark in an entire school year it becomes meaningless. You comment yourself on the problems the school has with lateness and this is bound to affect the learning of everyone with kids arriving in dribs and drabs, so I would see the fact the school are trying to get tougher on the problem as a good thing, I wouldn't complain about it.

However, you mention that the school themselves are often tardy in getting children in. I would definitely complain about that, its not exactly leading by example is it?

That was my issue with the lateness on an afternoon larks I see what worra meant by it potentially sounding like I felt this was no need for us to be on time if the issues are confused. Good time keeping sets children up for life, it's good practice and good manners. Plus lateness is my ultimate pet peeve :D

How odd. DD2 goes to our local infant school. She is regularly (ie 2-3 times each week) late by 5-10 minutes, because DD1 goes to special school, there are road works between the girl who gets picked up before her and us, so the transport for DD1 is late (it's a 6 month gas works), and of course we can't leave until she goes.

I literally parcel her onto her transport, having the other children in the car, run to the car and start the engine.

Every day I apologise. The only days she gets there on time are when my mother comes to pick her up for me and take her to school (to avoid her being late).

The teacher has said that she won't give DD2 a late mark because she knows we can't help it.

Lateness can be a real problem if it is persistent and I guess that if there are no mitigating circumstances, then it will make people think. But to make you sign in late for being early? Bizarre.

If school starts at 8.55 then the bell has to go at 8.55 and they have to be lined up to go in at that time. If a few run in and make the end of the line fine, if not it's a late mark. I would write a very measured letter, in the first instance to the head, about timekeeping in general and your diappointment that your child got a late mark when he was on time.

I would ask for clarification in writing from the head or the governors first of the official times of the school day (unless you already have them on the prospectus or in newsletters/on the school website for example.

1. The official start of the day.
2. The time when the children are officially 'late'
3. What time of day the school officially finishes.

Then, once confirmed I'd write my letter to the head and send a copy too, to the govs stating

1. The teachers are not always on time in the morning to admit the children to the building
2. That on your stated occasion you were made to sign in as if your child was late, despite it being on or earlier than the official 'late' time and
3. That on many an occasion parents are left waiting for their children many minutes after the close of the school day.

In each point, refer to the official times as checked in the school documentation and keep your complaint to the point.

The third one can be a tricky one. I teach and ensure that the children are dismissed on time. On days it has been my turn to stand in the school grounds and be on duty I've heard many a parent complain about the teachers who keep hold of their classes til late. On a few occasions has been people complaining who are waiting for my pupils and I have pointed out that I am there and that the children they are waiting for are not waiting for me but are instead taking their sweet time to make their way through the claokrooms and out.

In soom other schools I've noticed a sense of pride in some teachers that they are too busy to be on time.

DS's primary school has let parents know that the official finish time for the school is the time the lessons actually finish and that the children get ready to leave after that time. So yes, it can take 5+ mins before the children are out.

Same here, school finishes at 3.15 so I teach until 3.15. How long it takes some children to get themselves out of the door is up to them. If they are very late out, then they need to get themselves sorted at greater speed!
If I stopped teaching even 5 minutes earlier I would be missing nearly 16 hours of teaching time each year!

I think you're over worrying about this - so he was once late (or not) - does it really matter??? to him or to school or even to you? Sorry I really don't get why you're so concerned

And I wonder if the reason you're getting so upset by this is by down to your opinion of the school as being not great - and now you've got an actual reason to criticise them.

IME (as a parent and school worker) you only get a late slip if you (the child) are late for the taking of the register. This late book thing seems rather odd, if it's a state school I'd be asking the LA re attendance policies.

However, as a school run veteran (been doing it since 2001) I've always got to school a good 5 minutes or so before doors open.

I think it's awful that my son has a late mark against his name and I think this makes us look like we don't care for timekeeping. get a grip woman it is primary school not uni. Like alistron, I am a school run veteran (like that one) since 1997 we always make sure we are there 5 mins early, and our school has always had a late book with a reason part in it. Sounds to me more like a mini hitler secretary than an issue over the late book.

School attendance admin hat on here.

School should only be marking students as late AFTER the time set out in the school policy. Anything before that is present, and should be marked appropriately.

What difference the late mark makes will depend upon the type of late mark given.

If it's an L mark, then it's a present and really, arguing the toss won't make any practical difference to your child's attendance, and whilst I'd be mightily annoyed as a parent, it wouldn't be worth arguing over.

If it's a U mark then that's an unauthorised late, and that counts as an absence.

In the school I worked in the marks worked thus:

8.45-9.05 - registration period, therefore present mark given
9.05-9.30am - L mark given if child is signed in at office
9.30am onwards (this time can be changed by the individual school, but once set should be adhered to and should be within 30 minutes of the end of registration) - U mark given if child is signed in 'late' at office, or appropriate absence mark given (eg for medical appointment)

This is as per DCSF guidelines.

Not acceptable. I would be furious. I think it is part of school life to learn punctuality and time keeping and this sort of clumsy attitude from the school does not help instil that lesson.

DD has to be in for 8.45am. The bell goes at 8.40 and they all line up with various children tagging on the end over the next few minutes On a very wet or very cold day the doors open at 8.15 and children go strait to classrooms for years 1-3 and older children are supervised in the school hall. Otherwise they're supervised from 8.15 in the playground. They're very strict about being on time and expect the same from pupils

I think you, and the school, need to chill the fuck out. Parents shouting and arguing in the school, in front of children, over 5 minutes? No need! Act like a normal grown up, sign the book, and under reason for lateness just write "not actually late, school got time wrong" or something.

Agreed keepingupwith it is a primary school, not a Uni. For that reason I can't see what purpose this late book has. My son felt bad enough entering the class room later than the other children never mind having to see mummy sign a book and get a lecture from the office administrator about the importance of being on time when we were in fact early by 5 minutes. When trying to instill into a child fairness and the importance of rules that are there for everyone's benefit I think some support from the school can not unreasonably be expected. Hard to tell him to mind school rules when it's blatant they're in the wrong.

ll31 I can see how this may not be a big deal to some people. We're in a school where so many parents turn up after 9 regularly and don't turn in homework and never bother to prepare their children for the day properly. To be honest as well as the unfairness of the whole thing I don't want to be lumped in with these parents. I've worked in the school as a volunteer and I'm well aware of how these parents are spoken about in the staff room. I shouldn't have been privy to those type of comments but I was. Yes it has made me paranoid.

sassy as I pointed out in my post I left without arguing, I pointed out we were early, she refused to turn round and look at the clock. I signed my son in, left the lateness area blank, showed my son the door and left. The other parents argued and shouted. I left. Have a

If it will make you feel better, write a note making it clear that you were on time and the member of staff was over-vigilant.

But - worried about your PR at school - really? You volunteer, you've only once been late?

BTW with the "Reason for lateness" column I was tempted on the one occasion I had the opportunity to put "I don't value education", but went with "parental incompetance" instead.

Lol Meryl you actually raise a valid point there. How many primary school children are responsible for their own timekeeping.

I think I will write a nice calm note explaining that we weren't late, perhaps not go into exactly why I think they're incapableoftellingtime-- in the wrong and just see if it's rectified from there.

I do volunteer but I've also raised issue with how I was left unsupervised with children while they were changing, with SN children who needed more care than I was qualified to give and been left with a whole class alone for 10 minutes. Therefore I am seen as a troublemaker for bringing up how uncomfortable I felt about it. I am not CRB checked or qualified to teach or assist.

yes but you're still bitching about it now, and talking about going to the board of governers...have a yourself and see if they are giving out free grips with it.

I should get a grip, walking away calmly from a situation and rather than just reacting based on anger and what i felt was the unfairness of the situation leaving it till Sunday evening to discuss with other mothers before deciding what action if any to take the following Monday. Good lord, good job I don't own any sharp objects.

dont get why a sch that has probs with late kids make you sign in late if you actually wwerent. surely that makes their stats look worse. dont worry about it. 1 late makes no diff on your sons record but effects the school when it comes to ofsted.

Wasn't aware of that mumnosbest. The last ofsted wasn't favorable at all, actually the reason I started trying to help out.