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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To want to carry on a private maintenance arrangement for our child rather than going through the CSA

22 replies

degroote78 · 07/03/2012 12:58

Basically my ex pays me £40 a week towards our daughter and has done since we split up. Suddenly he is saying it's best to go through the CSA in his words so "he can prove what he pays out" - he also has another child through a previous relationship. I have heard that the CSA are going to start charging mothers an initial fee for using the service as well as taking a % out of what you are given - this to me means my daughter will lose out. I struggle enough as is without some kind of tax being put on the money I get. I don't understand why suddenly he wants to do it this way unless there is some tax saving implication for himas he's self employed (if there is he's not admitting this). Seems to me things should stay as they are???

OP posts:

SusanneLinder · 07/03/2012 13:11

I would say stick with the Private arrangement.I have not heard anything about the CSA charging. However the CSA themselves want people to use private arrangements as much as possible. Go to CSA it will take weeks if not months to sort out maintenance, due to them being slower than a week in the jail.

have a look here and get a private arrangement documented.That should sort his tax ishoos.
www.childmaintenance.org/en/maintenance/index.html

ImperialBlether · 07/03/2012 13:12

Get him to make a direct debit and you're sorted.

TalkinPeace2 · 07/03/2012 13:33

avoid the CSA if you can
do you have an old friend or equally trusted family member who can mediate between you on this for a week or two and find out whats REALLY going on
before getting officialdom involved

WibblyBibble · 07/03/2012 13:40

DO not go through the CSA if you can avoid it at all. They WILL fuck up and you will get nothing for months even if your ex pays on time perfectly. They are notoriously crap and the only reason anyone would use them is their ex is a useless knob who will not pay otherwise (though often then they get out of it anyway), or if they are abusive and you thus can't contact them. Your ex can prove he has paid by keeping cheque stubs or bank statements, he just needs not to pay you in cash ffs. Private arrangements and keeping good records is the best and easiest way to do it (speaking from personal experience here).

WibblyBibble · 07/03/2012 13:41

TP2 the mediation is a good idea, OP you can even if you want go to a family mediation place (google ones in your area), they are not very expensive at all and for just a one off session it would only be maybe £20 each which is less than the CSA charges!

niceguy2 · 07/03/2012 13:42

Sounds to me like he's trying to lower his liabilities. Is he also paying the child from the other relationship?

If you can, stay with the private arrangement. The problem is that yes soon the CSA will charge but more than that, self employed can easily hide what they truly get paid. So in your case he may end up paying practically nothing.

That said he has every right to go through the CSA just like you can at any time ask them to intervene too.

What I always say is that it's always better to accept an amount the ex is willing to pay rather than the amount you want. So long as the two are not worlds apart. So in your case it is probably worth finding out if its a case of he wants to knock a tenner off in which case it could be best to accept £30 a week than go via the CSA and see £0 per month.

Debsbear · 07/03/2012 13:43

There are ways to prove his payments in the future if you want to avoid going through the CSA. Easiest way is through direct debits. If he insists then you may have no choice, but it's likely to cost him far now than it does now

oldraver · 07/03/2012 13:44

If he is self employed he 'may' want to go through the CSA so he can hide some of his salary and therefore pay less.

How forthcoming is he with payments ? do you think he would try and get out of it ?. I cant see any other reason why he would want to cancel a perfectly amicable arrangment

ChocHobNob · 07/03/2012 14:22

If he's paying for another child and it is through the CSA, he may have caught on that he is paying more than the CSA would propose a correct figure for his 2 children. One child is typically 15% of his net income, 2 is 20%. But the CSA do not recognise private agreeents, so he may be paying 15% through the CSA for his other child and then whatever he is paying you. If he had both of you go through the CSA, he would pay 20% in total and then this be split equally between the two children.

Yes, the CSA are proposing the start charging in the future. This hasn't been confirmed yet though. I would try and stay away from the CSA if I could, but I do understand that the CSA's stance on not recognising private agreeents can cause difficulties for some NRPs who may genuinely find the increased payents hard to cover.

But as well as the proposed charges in the future, part of the proposals was that the CSA will recognise private agreements.

Original poster

degroote78 · 07/03/2012 14:44

oldraver he is pretty good with the payments and usually puts it straight into my bank so he does have proof of payment.

I don't know if its some sort of tax dodge or if his ex is going after him through the CSA, so he needs to declare he has another child to support as well. I just wanted to see other people's response as cancelling a perfectly good arrangement and getting the CSA involved seemed a bit stupid to me.

Thanks for all your comments :)

OP posts:

ChocHobNob · 07/03/2012 15:02

I can't understand why an NRP would voluntarily want to go to the CSA when they have a perfectly good private agreement working with their ex either. There is some scaremongering that the CSA can demand years or backpayments if the PWC denies receiving any money and some have out of spite ... but that only happens when there is already a CSA case open. There are no repercussions for not having the payments of a private agreement recorded for an NRP. If anything, the Parent With Care is more at risk because the NRP could mess them around with no penalties.

Stick to the private agreement if it's working.

LunarRose · 07/03/2012 15:09

There are lots of ways someone who is self employed can hide income from the CSA. Please tell me he's not in a cash type business?

Unfortunately there's not alot he you can do if he does decide to go to the CSA but yes I would guess it's about reducing his liability

Original poster

degroote78 · 07/03/2012 15:54

LunarRose he is in a cash type business but is now getting an accountant and wanting to put everything through the books and sort out his tax properly. This makes even less sense for him to propose going through the CSA. He said he thought he may not get taxed on the money he pays for his children but that doesn't sound right at all. Maybe he's been given some duff information as he isn't exactly business man of the year - although he thinks he is - or he is trying to avoid paying in some way.

OP posts:

BOMsback · 07/03/2012 16:14

Tell him to pay direct debit rather than cash and that's all the back up he needs.

it sounds like he's worked out a way to not pay anything, or pay less as he's self employed or some such wank.

BOMsback · 07/03/2012 16:16

Actually, that's unfair - maybe he's just ignorant about it all and worried.

Furnish him with the facts and if he still wants to go through CSA then he is potentially trying to pay you less.

You don't get tax relief on CM payments - why would you no one lets me pay what I need to pay for my DD and then tax me!!!!

Original poster

degroote78 · 07/03/2012 16:20

BOMsback Exactly! I've sent him some links today from the website SusanneLinder suggested which highlight why a private agreement is the best option and I will see what he says after that. Hopefully he's just being ignorant as I would hope he is not trying to swindle our daughter out of what is rightfully hers! He gets a good deal already.

OP posts:

oldraver · 07/03/2012 16:26

I think if the CSA assess him he will have to pay 20% (or whatever the figure is) but that will be split between the two children... so prob could end up paying you less

SusanneLinder · 07/03/2012 16:26

Hey glad, I was of some help to someone :)

Original poster

degroote78 · 07/03/2012 16:54

oldraver God I hope not. Sometimes I'm on beans on toast for a few weeks in the month as it is. Couldn't survive with any less. He doesn't even have to pay rent as he lives with family but the CSA probably wouldn't take that into account. Lets hope the private arrangement stays!

OP posts:

Waspie · 07/03/2012 17:07

I have no idea of his motivations but my understanding was that either party could refer to the CSA if they wished. So if he wants to refer it's up to him and whether you think it is a good idea is neither here nor there. Or have I missed the point entirely?

hairytaleofnewyork · 07/03/2012 17:36

I thought the CSA was there to assist when absent parents won't pay. Give him a receipt or get him to do it via bank transfer if he wants proof.

LunarRose · 07/03/2012 20:41

No, anyone can go to the CSA. the other parent doesn't then have a choice, it has to go through the CSA. Trust me the CSA aren't great at getting Dads to pay up either

Hmm in your situation it may just be that he's setting his house in order as it were. Honestly I doubt it though. If you're self employed you are able to have "legitimate" business expenses as well as pension etc, taken off before the CSA make an assessment. If he historically hasn't put everything through the books, I'd doubt he will now. Self employment and cash in hand business forms a part of a high proportion of the CSA's complaints. They're also the ones which are hardest to sort out if you do have a shitty ex.

Sorry
x

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