to think the UK offers a bleak future for our dcs?

[kissmyheathenass]

Looking at unemplyment figures in Europe (Greece and Portugal have nearly 50% youth unemployment), I am wondering what future there is for our dcs in UK. Unemployment is set to get worse and I cant see how things will improve. There will be jobs for the children of the priviledged but what about for our ordinary dcs? :(

For the host country, migrant workers/ employment dependent residency makes a lot of sense. Get the workers when you need them, but no obligation when you don't. That's where we screwed up.

I think Cantonese medium is a teeny bit of hurdle dont you think?

And yes, the companies are localising more and more - I am watching my dcs' international school shrinking in front of my eyes!

Ex pat opportunities will dry up. DS is studying at post-grad in very good UK uni. Over 50% of his fellow post-grads are overseas students. The majority will be returning to their home countries. That leaves less of a skills gap for ex pats to fill.

It's also worrying to think that the £27K + necesary to obtain a first degree will mean that fewer UK students will stay for post-grad study where there is no State help at that level - it's all self / industry funded. Where will the UK engineers, scientists, etc of the future come from? Or, in the future, will we export those high quality jobs, just as we did with manufaturing the sector?

It's all a downwards spiral

I agree - the xenophobic bashing and blaming it all on immigration

If I remember correctly, immigration to Britain has been going on for ever, certainly since (and during) WWII and in the 50's (Jamaica etc.).

We live in a globalised world now

And yes, that means you might have to take a job overseas, just like they come to EU to work.

I've worked both overseas, been a cleaner for about 5 different jobs...and worked here in HRM where they recruited people locally, nationally and internationally, colleagues from Russia/Africa/India - the best candidate for the job at hand...

Oh, and I grew up as an expat kid by the way, so easier to move and chop and change in my adult life too....

Indeed I'm hoping that beings expats as children will help my dcs if they need to move overseas for work as adults - at the moment they certainly don't bat en eyelid about going anywhere which will hopefully remove some of the unknown for them in the future.

WetAugust are the overseas students on your son's course from specific countries? I can't imagine the majority of people in the places we've lived having the funds to send dcs overseas to study, although there is a rich contingent everywhere I guess.

Well said nooka. As for employment for DCs who, you don't feel are high flyers - the only insulation against the recession is to train in a job/career that the population needs - teaching, health, engineering, etc etc. Or gain training in practical skills - plumbing, mechanic, catering, building, driving etc if academic studies are not one's strong suit. There isn't much room in most economies for actors, athletes, designers, stockbrokers, PR people, etc unless they really are at the top of their game. The hardest part might be convincing our DCs - an experience I had with one of my young relatives recently - that doing a perfectly respectable job like waiting tables or working at a reception desk - is nothing to be ashamed of, and that not of all of us should expect to land a glamorous or sedentary job the moment we finish college.

Creepy, I was thinking about starting a funeral business today!! No shortage of customers.

Don't bank on it, the bloody baby boomers will live forever, what with fuel allowances, generous inflation linked pensions and 30 years of retirement.

I graduated in the recession of early 80's when it was very tough to get a job. Yes it is very hard at the moment, but it will get better.

starwisher Not if you intend to stay (given bleak prospects in UK, securing permanent residency for your children could give them huge advantages), albeit it depends how old your children are- e.g. putting a primary school child into it, prob a good idea if you expect to stay long term- putting a senior school age child, not so because the advantages of learning Chinese would be less than the disruption to exam period. I agree that without the expat packages, to have HK offer a better std of living than the UK you need to be front office investment banking or similar. Otherwise higher rents and school fees more than compensate for the 15% tax rate.

I guess my point, which I made clumsily, is that Brits have always seen overseas postings as a money spinner due to the expat packages used to attract them, but now these are drying up due to global skills equalisation, so there is a high chance that Brits will become "migrant workers" vs. expats because for many postings it wont make economic sense to move the whole family for what is a move just to secure a job.

"I do think it is at least slightly ironic that in the same thread you get immigrant bashing and the desire to immigrate. Should you decide to be an expat somewhere abroad, you will then become exactly the sort of immigrant that you are decrying."
Well observed, nooka.

Although expats and immigrants are different. Immigrants usually have permanent right to remain and have the intention to remain long term, retire there, etc. Expats are temporary residents, whose right to remain is attached to an employer and usually only intend to remain in the country for a couple of years and then go on or return to their home country.

In order for the global labour market to function at maximum efficiency, it would be better if people just went where the work is on a temporary basis. The problem with everyone shifting to work hubs permanently is that when the work moves on, the people don't.

However, this doesn't fit in with the way we live as most people like to feel attached to a place/ country.

The problem with a lot of jobs is that they don't pay enough to live comfortably on. By 'comfortably' I mean paying rent/mortgage/bills on a reasonable 2 or 3 bedroomed apartment or house as well as travel, food and have enough left over to save for emergencies or car servicing/new tyres etc. I'm sure you know what I mean.

Plumbers, carpenters, electricians - other skilled workers do all right as long as the work comes in unless they work for big companies, otherwise they can have some dry months.

Butchers and grocers, publicans, shopworkers, chippies etc suffer because of cheaper supermarkets and/or heavy local competition and they're not glamorous jobs which pay well.

People want security as well as a decent wage and so more and more are staying in education in the hopes they will land a position worthy of the time they've spent studying and doing exams. This of course leads to a shortage of positions available in their chosen sector.

I would be so happy to just stack shelves for a living like I used to do, but I could never afford to live anywhere on my own on the wage offered, even when I worked nights. I switched to social care because the opportunities were huge, although the pay was mostly the same unless you worked privately. Getting relevant qualifications was easy too, as it was done on the job and usually paid for by your employer. This type of work isn't for everybody, though, and although I wouldn't think any less of my child for going into this sector, I'd hope he or she could reach a little higher.

Indeed. We moved to the US when my dh got a transfer to New York. When his office closed we had to leave the country. Then we moved to Canada where we are in the process of getting permanent residency. Knowing your families stability and happiness (and health in the US) is entirely dependent on you keeping your job is a pretty stressful place to be, especially in current times. In fact living and working abroad is in general pretty stressful. Most economic migrants are strongly driven and bring great benefit to the country they move to (Canada actively recruits skilled workers, although that's not to say that the process is by any means easy).

He essence of graduate teaching will change with this new structure even if we want to think it won't. More overseas students is what all univ are pushing for recruitment. More english language support. Very little learning differences support - ie dyslexia, dyspraxia, mental health...

If we run univ like businesses and calculate efficiencies through pass and attendance rates you inevitable let go of quality of high value teaching content. I can teach you facts, but not how to think/analyse.

Guess I am just a jaded academic - started my career teaching a group of 38 'switched on' post grads and 46 undergrads. And now I manage a single undergrad module with a class of 248 people - do I know their names - nope. Do I think they are good - some but not all. Can I push them to work harder - nope not allowed. Am I to spoon feed them as dumb down curriculum so they can pass and be a 'good' statistic- oh yes!

Sorry this is turning into a rant and it is happening in post 92univs as well as the Russell Group type places too. The essence of a university education has changed. And it is fair to worry. My child is too little for me to worry now. And I watch the education sector closely across the world.

But fwiw when such downturns happen parents are known to push their kids into professional qualifications of sure shot jobs - dr, nurse, lawyer, engineer, teacher etc. areas where there will always be a demand for professionals anywhere you go in the world. This makes these courses harder to get into and longer years of study and apprenticeship - but job is guaranteed, if not in Uk, elsewhere.

I remember a really old granny of my asking my 23ye old consultant banking investor cousin who was minting it - 'yes yes consultancy - but what does your factory make?' it goes and comes back around...fancy jobs and fancy money will be hard to make..bog standard careers always stay around are in demand.

Sorry for the long post in hospital and wide awake!

Oh wow...just scrolled through...I like the way all problems come and get laid on immigration door step. Read the Life in the Uk book people and get your facts right. uk went on overseas recruitment drives straight after the wars. It have right to people in areas of conflict to come to uk and live.
Can you seriously blame immigrants for everything? Last night I had the joy of watching a youngish white Engliah alcoholic male Refuse to leave A&E. Spit and kick at the dr and nurse, not take medicine and piss all over the floor, he then smashes precious equipment in his cubicle. He has been doing this everyday for the past 5 days. Such people exist.
My husbands company has been looking for a highly skilled programmer for 8 months now. No luck!
Children born in UK don't become British citizens automatically. This is not the US where this rule still exists in 1980s it was changed.

Call yourself educated...bah! Go check facts before jumping on the bandwagon of immigrant bashing.

And in continuation of my previous comments - my post grad class of 63 has 3 home students. Says something. I don't know what their fees will look like as universities are keeping very quiet about it.

'Can't remember hearing anyone saying they want to be a bus driver...
or plumber or electrician...'

It must be where you live this is all I hear people say they want to do either the trades mentioned above or care, typing, nursing, warehouse or shop. I hardly ever hear anyone say anything else.

Also with the Polish thing I worked as a waitress with a girl in her early 20s like I was with at that time. On minimum wage she managed to save up enough money to rent a room and eat in uk, also save up for a house deposit in poland and self fund her entire wedding in just 18 months! Of course you would want to come to uk and work as you would get a lot more out of it than if you worked for the same wage in uk.

The economy runs in cycles, like night follows day. Good times will come again.

To think this is forever is just as unrealistic as Gordon Brown's mad idea that he had conquered boom and bust and that growth would now be exponential.

That said, there are certainly things that could be done to make sure the next boom is bigger than it would otherwise be. Personally I think that one based on education (particularly in the hard sciences) would have a much firmer footing than one based on unsustainable and artificial house price inflation.

Whatever your DC do, bus driver or bond trader, probably the best thing you can do for them is to encourage them to save enough in good years to provide for themselves in bad ones.

I graduated in the 80s, I got various jobs, and actually the most employable bit of my degree was the bit I disliked most.

However, I still want my kids to go to Uni and study what they are interested in. One of them so far seems to be heading for a very employable area. The younger one wants to head towards something with few direct opportunities,

But a lot of graduate jobs are for any subject, and if they come out articulate and having grasped opportunities I think they will survive.

BTW I don't think there is anywhere better than the UK if you look at all the factors (and that doesn't mean if DH got posted overseas we wouldn't go). Everywhere is suffering or has high cost of living or unemployment or health costs and so on.

What bugs the immigrant in me to no end is the presumptions and half baked knowledge on which these judgements are made. I shall make one at the end here and see what you think..

Been here in england and scotland many years - If I lose my job today - cant claim any benefits.
Been paying taxes for over a decade here - can I claim child benefit for DS 'born British' - no. Is he a UK Citizen by virtue of birth - no. Did I get a health in pregnancy grant - no. Can I be asked to leave the country (house/job/car/friends) at a 3 weeks notice by home office if they change policies again - yes. Sounds like what you know??

All immigrants work hard (even when you move within the same country from family 'roots' area to a brand new area) because you up and go to make a better income, get a better job, at the cost of leaving home, family and support networks. And that is the difference.

My international students struggle with English at times and they work triple hard to get around this, but they pay 9000£ of fees and need to pay loans on it so ensure they take everything being given to them. They take on part time jobs and study to overcome language barriers. My home students work very hard too and some of them are very bright. But the Student ethic of 'enjoy univ life, get drunk, house parties, Ibiza summers and do drugs and sleep around' kicks in and takes a toll.

See how presumptuous i sound? But it is only partly true.

Immigration related myths and the use of a broad brush to paint one giant generic picture is a 'result' of media and Tory govt push to yet again blame something they did not do for everything that goes wrong and everything that needs changing! They sold it well...a lot of you seem to buy it.

I agree with mummytime. DS wants to do Politics at Uni which is obviously not exactly vocational, but is what he's interested in, and as he plans to go in the Army as an officer, is still fine; they dont seem to mind what your degree is in unless you're going to be an engineer or something.

Far better to study something you have a genuine interest in than not, imo.

Will stop ranting - what ninedragons says is true. It runs in circles. Worry not. Encourage your children to do what they are good at or like. And save.

We've been here before in the 70s, it will improve.