Is 2.8 too young to send to bed without tea?

[whenskiesaregrey]

Apologies in advance for such a long post about basically a toddler being a pain with his food...

Background... DS has always been an awful eater. He is just so slow, and to be honest, I just don't really know what else I am meant to do now. He is slow no matter what he has for his tea, whether it is a proper dinner or a picky tea. Something he will eat properly (as in less than an hour) one time, will be a nightmare the next time. Nothing seems to work. We have tried sitting with him when he is eating/ eating our dinner at the same time/ eating our dinner in a different room/ cheering and dancing every time he takes a mouthful/ making the food look interesting (cut into shapes, arranged like a face, etc)/ paying no attention to him when he is eating/ giving him small portions/ distracting him while he is eating/ turning it in to a game/ etc. I can't think of anything else now other than taking his food off him and letting him go hungry. Eating time will either go one of two ways. Either he will eat hardly any of it, or he will start to eat okay and then just stop. We have sat for hours trying to entice him to eat. He doesn't have tantrums, he just doesn't want to eat. We can't bribe him with treats, chocolate, sweets, because he is just not bothered about them. Or they might get him to eat one bite, and then the next mouthful is the same all over again. No meal takes less than an hour to eat, even breakfast. Toast this morning took an hour and a half. A banana can take up to an hour. Sandwiches take about an hour and a half. So proper meals are even worse.

So, tonight I made him pizza with a cheese dip. Usually a dip is exciting enough to get him to eat a bit faster. So after an hour, he had had three bites of pizza, and had cheese all in his hair and he was happily sat singing songs and getting the pieces of pizza to dance around the plate. So I asked him to eat hurry up and eat his tea. Previous to this, I had 1. had a bite and said how nice it was, 2. said how exciting his tea looked, 3. fed him two bites of the pizza, 4. asked him to eat his tea numerous times. So I said to him if he didn't start eating his tea, he couldn't have his yoghurt drink he had been asking for. Not bothered. I then said he had five more minutes and tea time would be over. After five minutes I went over and tried to feed him a piece of pizza, and he said 'no mummy, I'm not eating any more.' I said to him if he doesn't try with his tea, then he will have no more food tonight, and no toys after tea. He took one more bite of pizza, and then sat there and refused to eat any more.

So he has gone to bed tonight after eating 4 pieces of pizza and a glass of milk before he went up. And I know he's not that bothered. He was bothered about no toys after tea though. And I have said to him tonight that if he doesn't make any effort with his tea from now on, then he gets no toys after tea and no more food that night.

I don't know what else to do. I feel so bad, because he is 2.8, but I am at my wits end with it. It is every meal time, breakfast, dinner and tea. It takes up huge parts of the day, and I'm at a loss.

AIBU??

Mine used to have just the glass of milk sometimes.

He's 14 now and absolutely fine.

If food is an issue for you and is becoming one with your ds then read 'when your kids push your buttons....and how to deal with it' by bonnie Harris. Life changing stuff.

Jilted's suggestions look very sensible. Can I just also suggest that you make sure you feed him higher protein foods to ensure he gets a lot of energy from what he does eat? And I know they are ludicrously expensive, but what about multivitamins? But obviously not if it will mean more problems for all of you.

Thanks all for the advice.

He weighs 12kg, just under 2 stone. He has always been a bit short and light. Even when he was just BF he would only feed every 3/4 hours. He is just not motivated by food. But, he is pretty chilled about everything, I think it is just his nature. Which is great for almost everything else!

I totally understand what you are saying about drawing attention to the food. This has gone on for so long we have given quite a few things a good go. We did the 'ignore the food' thing and just chatted about about things, got him to tell daddy about his day etc. We gave it a good go. But he ate even less, it is like he forgets his food is there.

He very rarely snacks in between meals. He never asks for food. Tbh, he doesn't really drink loads either, there is always a cup within reach for him with some water in, but I do need to remind him to have some every now again.

I appreciate all the feedback. Like I said, we have tried so many things now over the last 18 months+ and don't really know what else to do.

DD isn't as bad and generally eats well but sometimes doesn't eat much at all, she's simply not hungry. We remind DD (who's 2.5) by asking her if she's finished when she starts to play with her food or get fidgety. When we're finished and if she's still not eating, then we take her food away and we all get down from the table. She has the option of toast/bread/rice cakes later if she asks.

Good luck.

I agree with those who say to go with small portions (from your OP four slices of pizza seems like a reasonable tea).

Try putting out one piece of pizza, a quarter of a sandwich, a small piece of banana. Give it 15 minutes and then just take it away and let him get down. If he eats it he can get down, no fuss.

Try to stop the cheering, stickers, games etc. - you're not a performing circus

Avoid milk between meals as that can fill up small tummies. You could also keep a food diary for a week, you might be surprised by how much DS has actually eaten - I'm sure I read somewhere that you should consider food intake on a weekly rather than a daily basis as toddlers are generally good at regulating what they need.

He is the same at my sisters and my mums with his food. My mum says I was exactly the same when I was his age though.

At nursery they say he is great. But they say that about everything. Tbh, I think they just get some time to eat, and then they take the food away, and because he doesn't cry or mess with the food, he is great. They put in his book that he has 'eaten some' of his meals.

Ok, so how long is a reasonable time to give him to eat? 30 minutes? I don't think he has ever eaten a meal in that time (except when he was 12 months or less).

Right. First off, stop all the cheering and whooping. Food shouldn't be something you make a big fuss of, neither should it ever be used as a bribe/reward/punishment (not saying you do, just don't ever get into the habit). Set a time you're happy wiht for a meal - say half an hour - then remove plate without comment when that time is up. be consistent. Relax a bit he will not let himself starve!. Above all, stop making such a big deal out of it - he will have cottoned on to that already

I have 2 fantastic eaters and 1 faddy eater.
I think that by now, your son is probably thriving on the attention and at this point I would try the following :
-Everyone eating at the table at the same time.
-Reduce his portion sizes - DD has '3' pieces of pasta on her plate and 1 piece of carrot, 2 peas etc.
-Put his plate in front of him and then just ignore. Don't mention anything about food but make sure there is plenty of conversation around the table.
-No TV on, toys or any other distractions.

• When everyone else has finished, clear his plate away.

-Have fruit or yogurts for afters. -Try smoothie juices frozen to make lollies.

Hope some of that and all the other ideas help. I take comfort from the fact that my disgustingly healthy 6'2 brother ate only chips and beans until he was 12......

As far as possible we eat all our meals together as a family as it teaches children about the "norms" of eating and table manners. If dc1 is not eating we ask whether she's finished. If yes, the meal gets taken away without comment irrespective of how little or much she's eaten. The only compliment she gets is for eating nicely (ie with fork/spoon) or for good manners (asking for something with a please). I was kind of exhausted reading your OP as it all sounds such a production. I would normalise family eating and remove the spotlight from food.

Thanks all. From tomorrow we will just give him half an hour or so, and leave it at that. And we won't mention the food!

I do understand what people are saying about it appearing a production. Squeezed in to one OP it does appear that way. But it is just a load of different things we have tried over about 18 months, and recently it is trying to make the food exciting. We have tried the 'ignore the food' thing but the difference is we have still left him to eat at the table until we think he has eaten a reasonable amount. From now on, we will just give him the half an hour and leave it at that.

Thanks all, you have been very constructive :)

I would say about 20 minutes. My DS is 18mo and exactly the same as your DS. I put his food out in front of him at 5pm, with a juice box. I either eat something light with him or have a cup of tea, and chat to DH or just float about close to him, chatting away. If he's hungry; he digs right in. If he's not, he leaves it.

At 5:20 on the cooker clock, I take the food away. If it's finished, I give yoghurt or a small biscuit, if it's half finished I give banana, if it's barely touched he gets down from the table.

The hardest thing is to relax and let this happen, especially if he's not eaten. But many toddlers are totally capable of living on 2 meals a day, especially if they're having milk before bed.

DS didn't touch his food tonight. I used to really fret about it; what if he wakes up hungry/doesn't put on weight/if this is the start of some fad. It never happens. Tomorrow is another day.

It's a really clever way of getting a lot of attention perhaps? My DD is a very picky eater, and I leave the plate until she gets down from the table, give her one warning that if she doesn't go back to the table I will remove the food, and then remove it if she isn't interested.

She then will wait until breakfast time. And usually be hungry, although sometimes not. I offer her very small portions because I think she just has a small appetite.

I think I would limit meal times to 30-60 minutes, stop all the cajoling and tempting and attention, just eat together as a family, then remove the food without any mention of it at the end of the set time you choose. No snacks unless you usually would, I let them have hot milk and a biscuit sometimes before they brush teeth and go to bed, plus fruit or vegetables are freely available. DD prefers to graze on tiny amounts, so sometimes I have to be strict to enforce table manners, but don't worry about amounts, they'll eat when they want to.

I have a question for you sensible lot. If you have a just 2 year old that shouts "ninished" before she has even taken a bite. Of tea but then immediately demands fruit and yoghurt, do you let her have it? This is my current food grapple.

Sorry for hijack op. I also think you need to stop making mealtimes such a production. You have had some good advice here.

hi!
this post struck true with me. My boy can be a bit hit or miss at dinner time. We all eat together and don't focus the conversation about his eating, just chat about our days & occasionally remind him to have some tea. If he doesn't want what's put in front of him, he now knows he's to sit at the table until we're finished and then he can come down. We don't offer alternatives, if he's hungry, he'll eat and I've learned to look at his food intake over a week instead of panicking because he's missed one meal. (my son is 2.6)
I hope this helps x

Nursery sound like they have the right idea. Sit down to eat together, after 30 minutes dinner is over. Take it away and clear up.

"Eaten some" and a glass of milk is fine. Just keep an eye on his weight, and give him a multivitamin.

twofalls - my DS2 does this. Shouts finished and ready for pud before he has touched his dinner. I just laugh and say no you haven't. It usually means he wants to be fed by me tbh. So then we start a game of me putting food on his fork. Then I say "that chicken looks delicious - I'll just leave it on side of plate to cool down..". I then turn away and DS2 quickly eats it! I pretend to turn back and express surprise that 'my' food has gone...

There are lots of laughs and we have fun playing our little game. Plus the food all disappears quickly.

Twofalls, if my dd doesn't want what is front of her she has to wait until the rest of us are done then we just say go and play. Fruit/yoghurt only if an attempt has been made (a genuine one) and I can see that she really doesn't like it.

Good luck OP.

Thanks cece, will try that but tbh she hates being fed and is VERY determined. Part of me doesn't want to make food a battleground (been there, done that with dd1) but the other part of me thinks she should at least make a stab at her dinner.

Loads of good advice on here - don't feel a failure (despite the bitchy comment one person posted) - sometimes when problems develop, it's really hard not to see the wood for the trees. Remember that everything is a phase!

I'd just add, no snacks between meals until your LO is older and the mealtime issues are resolved. Only water as a drink at the table - milk and yoghurt drinks are heavy and fill them up IMHO. Eat at a table together. Make sure there are a couple of things your LO likes in each main meal. Reasonable sized portions - about the size of his two fists. No feedback - either positive or negative - despite your anxiety try to show your LO that mealtimes are a time for chat and getting together. After 30mns, remove the plate and offer small portion of fruit / healthy pudding (e.g. stewed fruit & natural yoghurt, home made flapjack) if your LO has made some effort to eat (not necessarily a clean plate). Don't go the route of offering a 'menu'.

FWIW one of mine went through a phase of everything being 'yukky', taking one bite and throwing the rest away. We totally blanked it and after a month or two he gave up. If a relapse threatens, we just totally ignore him and he usually forgets after a while, starts eating and makes funny little pleasurable noises if he actually likes it. It's less about the food, and more about the control and attention I think.

HTH.

This book is brilliant. It will answer most of your queries.

www.amazon.co.uk/Food-Our-Children-Eat-Like/dp/1841154776

Bottom line = no pantomime, no fuss, just nice food and no fuss if they won't eat it (they'll be hungry at the next meal). Don't offer alternatives (you're making a rod for your own back). Offer yoghurt or apple as normal (rather than withhold it as a punishment) but don't offer extra (don't want them to fill up on apples)

Well done for starting an AIBU thread and listening to the advice you've been offered

I agree, you've been making way too much of an issue about it all. But from experience of a similar child I do understand how it can be a worry. My eldest DS is a real grazer (as am I) and I've come to realise that some days he just doesn't need that much.

Our children tend to eat with us, have the same food etc. So long as they're not being deliberately fussy or silly they would always still get pudding (although we don't often have a "proper" pudding). If they don't want much that's also fine, but they are always told that they need to remember that after tea the only thing they are allowed to eat is fruit.

My DS1 is still a grazer and goes between eating barely anything to eating loads (he had 4 weetabix this morning for example). He just got weighed at school and is the same centile for weight as his height so perfectly in proportion and he's clearly getting what he needs. I suspect your son is too.

YABU all you are doing is making it worse, OP the more of an issue you make of it the more he will. So what if he is slow as long as he eats it. Also some good advice I heard a few years ago from a doctor is that a child of 3 only needs 2 table spoons worth of food at each meal, that is all their stomachs can hold, it is something I always kept in mind when mine where that age.

oooh i am reading this thread and taking notes...

nothing of value to add, other than you are not alone. ds is like this, but dd was not. good luck.

I agree with legoballoon-sensible advice.Take all the attention away-both positive and negative. Don't discuss-either with him, or with anyone else in his hearing.