Topping up state education in a good school verses independent education

[tryingtobemarypoppins2]

Following an interesting comment in a thread I started, AIBU to think that parents providing tutoring, lots of clubs etc can give as rounded (?) high quality(?) education as an independent school experience?

Any thoughts or experience?

I would Say it can be better than, not simply 'as good as'.

Tbh there are very often downsides to a private education. Not just the cost, but that the child may be rather isolated from their local peers. They may also become over reliant on being spoon fed. Also, some people can lack real inner self confidence as adults if they feel they got to uni or into their career on account of their school rather than their own ability and efforts.

At the end of the day , you're in a minority of 7% of the population if you're in private school. There's a lot to be said for being educated along with the other 93%! And certainly some good quality top up tuition where needed is probably a far better use of funds than paying school fees and no doubt getting some poor or uninspiring teaching along with the good quality. We have some friends whose children go to private school and Ive realised that they have to pay for any sort of top ups whereas a state school will just provide them- eg dds school has booster classes for pupils who may be A/A* borderline, provided free of charge after school, and they are also offering Easter revision sessions for GCSE. There's actually MORE of this extra provision than seems to be on offer in the school our friends send their kids to.

I havent seen a school locally that that doesnt have a banner outside offering (paid for, external people) tuition on a Saturday - all schools seem to run Easter catchup/revison classes.

Still. 17m adults this week were statistically functionally innumerate. It makes you bloody wonder.

"no doubt getting some poor or uninspiring teaching". Why would you assume that? At the indie school I work at the last of the "old guard" left years ago and all staff are now absolutely as professional as you would wish and expect. As to revision classes, my DP runs a session twice a week at lunch time ALL YEAR for kids who want to come for help plus after school twice a week in the run up to exams. "People can lack real self-confidence if they feel they've got to uni on account of their schools" - believe me, at the end of the day kids are alone in the exam hall and it doesn't matter what you do they stand and fall by their own efforts. Sorry, I take huge offence at the casual assumptions in your post based on anecdotal evidence of a friend's kid's school. OP, it can be a good option to do things in the way you suggest. I believe most state schools do offer a huge amount but as with all things in life, you get what you pay for.

Trixie- there are good and not so good teachers everywhere- the private schools aren't immune to them! In fact some people would argue it can be easier to get away with being rather uninspiring in a school where there are smaller easier classes. My point is that in a state school, if your child is unfortunate in having a less good teacher in a subject one year, you can at least pay for private tuition outside school without the knowledge you're paying for the uninspiring teaching too

This really interests me. I think there is a lot of truth in it. I was state educated for primary and privately for secondary - my private school was awful - v. few extra curricular activities and stuff like music, drama and sports were for those who showed talent (not me). Although I realise there are muh better private schools it really coloured my view of private ed.
I am interested to know what would you top up to 'round off' a state education?

*much

My thoughts are more about the hidden curriculum though, expectations, manners, even things like establishing a good diet as they all have to eat together a cooked meal etc.
I also wonder about the length of day for children in a state school then having to come home and go back out to clubs, swimming etc whereas in independent schools this is all part of a normal school day.

Silly education threads. It all depends on:
a) the quality of your local state school
b) the quality of your local independent school

Of course independent schools aren't necessarily better, but you can't mitigate against an entire day of less than adequate teaching with a few after school clubs and one tutor sessions a week.

To be honest due to he hysteria around state schools lots of sub standared private schools have poped up just taking scared middles class parents money

Or worse taking working class parents money who can I'll afford it my sister being one she could only afford the cheapest private school she was made redundant 6 weeks ago and the children are now at a c of e school and has been told her son is at least a year behind and my niece cannot yet write her name with out mistakes she is 5 she found out the school had not been using qualified teachers

But thought as a private school it must be better

My son attends a out standing high school that boasts 90% pass in A TO C in GCSEs has a strict uniform and bhaviour and a stong line on maths , English and science

We top that up with a tutor and I can safely say my son is receiving a better education than my sisters kids who were being privately educated

Private school dose not equal good as sate school dose not equal bad

If that were the case we would get middle class parents pretending to be Jewish or catholic to get their kids in to state school or people paying 50k premium to down size just so they can live on. The door step of the outstanding comp rather than pay the fees for some over rated private school

Just look at Amy child's for only way is Essex to see private schools don't always deliver good educations

Amy Child's

Just to add if your child is a top sports person, or musician etc. they will be doing activities on top of school even in a private school (unless it's Eton or something, and even then maybe in the vacations).

tryingtobeMP - you know as in most educational issues, it depends entirely on the individual children and individual schools concerned.

I don't think it's possible to generalise about these things.

I know. Just interesting. You can't get away from class size though and with a DS who will need extra teacher time, no amount of mummy and daddy activity time will give that :(

My thoughts are more about the hidden curriculum though, expectations, manners, even things like establishing a good diet as they all have to eat together a cooked meal etc.
I also wonder about the length of day for children in a state school then having to come home and go back out to clubs, swimming etc whereas in independent schools this is all part of a normal school day.

I get where you're coming from, but I really don't think private schools have a monopoly on manners. Far from it tbh. And I would say that the expectations at my dd's state school are exceptionally high, but that has more to do with the parents than the school IMO. Any school which attracts lots of parents with high aspirations for their kids will create a positive learning environment.

And my dd's state school is somewhat obsessed with healthy eating!

As for the day being long, I don't think it is really - dd does quite a few clubs in school, many of which are held at lunchtimes, and she does one after school activity at the school which happens straight after school. There are so many activities available that she could do something like that every afternoon, but I think it's good for her to mix with different circles of friends outside the school, so the other activities take place elsewhere. Usually, she comes home & has a bit of a rest, does some homework and then we go out again. It's fine tbh.

So in answer to your question, yes I do think you can get every bit as good an education from a good state school - perhaps with a bit of topping up here and there - as you could from a good private school. In fact, I'm another one who thinks that state can be an even better option.

Obviously, we are lucky to live in an area with outstanding state schools, and I genuinely don't think my dd could get a better education anywhere. We are in the fortunate position of being able to afford private education if we so choose, but I think it would be a complete waste of money at the moment. I realise that this isn't the same in every area, but I do think there is a rather misguided tendency to assume that private must be better just because you pay for it.

Assuming the private school is actually better in some ways to start with then 'topping up' could work as long as you are a family that will get around to doing it and has the time in the evenings and weekends to do it. There are only so many times a week that 'topping up' can take place, so you need to consider if there is time in the week to fit whatever you think might be necessary in and how much doing so will affect quality of life. I know I couldn't have fitted all the ECs my dc have done at school had they been state educated and not done them there as their out of school hobbies have used a large proportion of their free time (and they do need some time to chill and to do homework as well) and I don't really like the idea of using precious free time for tutoring on top of school as well.

"there are very often downsides to a private education .... They may also become over reliant on being spoon fed."

DC's homework typically consist of researching a particular topic so that it can be discussed at the next lesson. Or the teacher may introduce the topic and leave it to DC to do additional reading. How is this being spoon fed?

"Also, some people can lack real inner self confidence as adults if they feel they got to uni or into their career on account of their school rather than their own ability and efforts."

I work in the City and although I am not one myself I do work alongside a lot of privately educated people and if the truth be told they are a bit too self assured.

"I was state educated for primary and privately for secondary - my private school was awful - v. few extra curricular activities and stuff like music, drama and sports were for those who showed talent (not me). Although I realise there are muh better private schools it really coloured my view of private ed."

DC's does waterpolo, science club, rifle club, badminton, cross country, chess, hockey, golf, politics, tennis etc etc etc.

Sound like you went to a crap private school which begs the question - why did your parents fork out £££ for such a crap private school?

Back to the original OP's question. The school gets your child for about 6 hours a day. Unless you are prepared to be a Tiger Mom you aren't going to be able to make much of a dent given how little free time you have with DC.

But pusheed, you seem to be assuming that the six hours spent in school are wasted. This is not the case. Anything that parents do outside of school is just supplementing the excellent provision in school. You really don't need hours and hours to make a dent.

Also, (and this isn't aimed at anyone in particular) but I really don't understand why extra-curricular activities crop up in these debates so much. DD's state school has a dazzling array of clubs and activities, both at lunchtimes and in the afternoons, like many other state schools, so I never really understand why this is relevant.

My thoughts are more about the hidden curriculum though, expectations, manners, even things like establishing a good diet as they all have to eat together a cooked meal etc

Ah, I see where you are coming from now.

To put my two penn'orth in; my eldest two went to completely different state schools. The grammar school boy is far better rounded, confident, self assured than the other one. It's quite bizarre to look at them (a year apart, look identical) and physically see the difference (manners, grooming, outward style).

A simple question like "whats on for PE today" will provoke the answer golf, rowing, fencing. None of that was available with the comp.

Same borough. Same funding. A year apart. So indeed what is the difference.?

The difference is parental expectation. Pupils in private school are not going to be the prodigency of the bottom feeders of society are they?

What Betterwhenthesunshines said!

Isn't it bleeding obvious?

" You can't get away from class size though and with a DS who will need extra teacher time"
This worries me. Why does your DS need extra teacher time? If he has any kind of SEN, either you pay a lot fo a specialist private school, or sometimes pay for some extra support, or a lot of private schools don't want to know/don't have the resource. The teachers who teach in private schools tend to be different to those in state (and different teachers choose to work in different kinds of state schools).
So there would be even more factors to consider if your DS does need extra teacher time.

HoneyandHaycorns - ECs only come up, because, perhaps more than tutoring they can be very time consuming to take your child to in the evenings/weekends. If your state school provides the ones you want then it's not a concern, but not all do and as scrappy pointed out not all private schools do either.

Pusheed- that was exactly my point about real self confidence. I don't think being too self assured is a sign of confidence. It's a veneer. Some ex private school types exude irritating amounts of self assuredness- it's a totally different thing from having real inner self belief about your own achievements.

Sorry it's about what state school my son finshes his school at 2:15 they have 3 double lessons a day in year 7 the day is dominated by the Cora subjects, he has a rock climbing wall, the do tai chi (sp) they have a fully kitted out working radio sation also they have a deal with the feeder primary school do all who want can get work experince so no child leaves with out having work experince so they have somthing extra to put on Theri uni application.

They also boast 18 diffrent clubs including Charles dickens apreaction club

Btw he attends a state school

In my view unless you can afford to pay for a top flight private school then your child in my view is getting a education on a par with a good state school

In some private schools the behaviour of the children are awful, parents pay their way out of their childs mister meaners private school often shy away from tacking poor parenting and deny bullying is happening as for better manners often the children treat the school staff as ,the help,

Their are some sink state schools my sons one is not in that bracket they address the staff by standing, the staff address the children miss..... Or Mr........

Blazers are worn at all times and their are stiff penalties for not towing the line

The local private school are only 3% ahead in terms of exam results that's why it would cost around 30k more to try and by a home Ny were near my sons school