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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to be annoyed work are expecting me to come in on one of my days off?

43 replies

MatchsticksForMyEyes · 01/03/2012 18:39

I work in a school. The statutory child protection training needs re-doing. They are doing it on a day I don't work.
I am not obliged to do anything in school on a non-contracted day, however, I have attended extra meetings on the days I do and made arrangements to contact parents etc when I have been unable to on my days off.
I told the organiser I couldn't come on that day because I don't have any childcare. She asked me if I could find someone to have them. DH doesn't have any annual leave left and my parents work.
She then started laying it on thick saying the cleaners have given up their time to come in and do it as if I am being deliberately awkward.
As it happens, their nursery do have space for them, but I would have to put them in for a half day session when the meeting is only 1.5hrs.
My options are a) tell them I am not obliged to come in for anything on my day off and they need to offer me the training on a day I do work or b) put them in nursery and tell school they need to pay my costs.
I was reminded by the senior member of staff in front of a class of kids that I am expected on that day, which pissed me off more as now I feel I am being dictated to.
Wwyd? Any teachers' view particularly welcome.

OP posts:

Destrier · 01/03/2012 18:52

Quote STPC document at them. (Unless an independent school) what they are asking is not legal (yes you can volunteer to go in AND BE PAID, but you can't be forced.

Have a chat with your union (it doesn't need to be official).

hth

BellaBearisWideAwake · 01/03/2012 18:54

Ha, I am a teacher and I have had a conversation with my union about this just today! Now that I have got the AH to accept that I am not obliged to be in, I find that I am more amenable to volunteer to do so. But the assertion that I was required to really made me cross as it is wrong.

How nice do you feel like being?

FizzyLaces · 01/03/2012 18:56

I would go. I always try and attend such things then try to take time back another time. Sometimes work is a bit more give than take and vice versa.

I work for the Local Authority and am in a minority of people who would do this in my team, though.

NorfolkNChance · 01/03/2012 18:56

They either need to realise that you do not attend or pay you supply rate (M6 minimum) for the time of the meeting plus travelling time.

My school do the latter for things like parents evening and open evenings.

Union advice/support is very much needed here.

FizzyLaces · 01/03/2012 18:57

I meant to say sometimes my work. Can't speak for yours op

dixiechick1975 · 01/03/2012 18:58

Not a teacher (solicitor) but if I work over my part time hours (usually for training purposes) I 'bank' the time and use it if I need to go to a hospital appointment or take DD to a medical appointment. Prefer to have some time banked than taking time off for apts unpaid or working the time back.

TidyDancer · 01/03/2012 18:59

Unless it's putting you at a massive inconvenience, I'd go. With this kind of thing, you will never find a day that suits everyone, they just picked a day to do it and if you can go, I think you probably should.

It's give and take really, isn't it? Be flexible on this and hopefully they would be flexible with you in return.

PicaK · 01/03/2012 19:00

I'm staggered at how pedantic you are being - it's obviously a one off. With so many people on reduced hours of fearful for job security I think you should be prepar3d to go the extra mile. I've worked unpaid overtime all through my career - for a good proportion of the population that's completely normal.

Pozzled · 01/03/2012 19:03

Can you offer to go in for a half day on the condition that it's paid- then the childcare will be covered. If the training is only part of the morning, I'm sure there's plenty of other things you could do for the rest of the session.

Pozzled · 01/03/2012 19:06

PicaK unpaid overtime is completely normal for teachers as well. Chances are that the OP already works way over her contracted hours.

MrsMcEnroe · 01/03/2012 19:10

I'm with PicaK and dixiechick on this one. I also work part-time and sometimes I have to swap a day or work extra on one of my days off - I can't always expect everyone else to work around my schedule! It doesn't happen too often, and I also "bank" the time and take it off in lieu later on ... I know it can't always work this way for teachers (I am married to one!) but I do think you are being deliberately inflexible and let's face it, child protection is incredibly important... I think you should suck it up and look at it as part of your job, frankly.

And in my capacity as a teacher's wife I feel bound to say that you get SO much annual holiday compared to people in the private sector that you surely can't begrudge working one single, solitary extra half-day .... can you? I'm sure the training hasn't been arranged on your day off with the sole aim of pissing you off

(I get 4 weeks' annual leave; DH gets about 16 - so if was asked to work an extra half day I would NOT let him moan about it!).

BellaBearisWideAwake · 01/03/2012 19:13

For full time teacher = 32.3 hours per teaching week not counting INSET.

BellaBearisWideAwake · 01/03/2012 19:15

Personally I am happy to do it if it is recognised that I am volunteering. It's the insistence that it is obligatory and that I can be forced in on my day off that rankled. And it was wrong.

MrsMcEnroe · 01/03/2012 19:15

pozzled If the OP is a teacher (I think she said she works in a school, not sure if she is a teacher or not, I assumed she was but am now wondering!) - I'm pretty sure that her contract will not specify that her working hours are limited to 8.15 a.m. - 3.30 p.m. or whatever the school day is. Marking, lesson planning and lunch duties etc are all part and parcel of a teacher's job aren't they?

BellaBearisWideAwake · 01/03/2012 19:18

Teachers are contracted to work 1265 hours a year. We generally reach this in about march!

Grockle · 01/03/2012 19:19

I am frequently asked to go in on my day off (every week atm ) and I have to say no sometimes. TBH, for the sake of good will, I'd do the training but then my school are very supportive and help me out when I need it (e.g. letting me go to DS's sports day etc) so it's a bit of give and take.

As an aside, I was shocked that a full-time teaching position is 32 hours - I nearly fell off my chair when I read that my 4 day week = 26 hrs. Twice that, perhaps. I'd love to only do 26 hours! (but yes, I do appreciate the 12+ weeks 'holiday' when I work from home

MrsMcEnroe · 01/03/2012 19:23

This is what I don't understand Grockle - my DH is a secondary school teacher, head of department, very academic school and he doesn't spend much of his holidays doing work! He does do lots of extra during term-time but then so do I - I'm contracted to work a 20-hour week for a private company and I regularly exceed this ... but I consider myself lucky to have a job in the current economic climate. It's just the way it is. Teachers are not unique in this respect.

This is a genuine questions to all those teachers who spend the entire school holidays working - What exactly are you doing?

GavisconJunkie · 01/03/2012 19:24

YANBU

Well she will do a great deal of ot already with lesson planning, marking, parent's evenings etc. But. I don't see why she should be out of pocket & told it's obligatory.'

There steroids in place to cover costs, find out what they are.

I think going along shows willing & is a good idea, BUT schools do have a tendency to take the piss when it comes to expecting extras. Also just because all you other wonderful martyrs do it doesn't mean OP is obliged to or workshy if she doesn't. Also, it's not exactly easy for teachers to take banked time.

By the way I am not or never plan to be a teacher. But I get miffed on their behalf when things like this crop up.

GavisconJunkie · 01/03/2012 19:27

MrsM a couple of ps teachers I k ow have been moved year group every year for the past 5! This requires them to clean their room & move all their stuff as well as get to grips with a different curriculum every summer!

MrsMcEnroe · 01/03/2012 19:31

Hi GavisconJunkie, fair enough. But I don't think that's the reason why most primary teachers on MN are working such long hours. I just can't work out if being a primary teacher is a massive con and the poor souls are all entitled to a 300% pay rise, or if they are not taught how to manage their workload efficiently, or if it's the parents who are to blame for constantly waylaying the teachers and demanding far too much time and attention ....!

GavisconJunkie · 01/03/2012 19:40

Hmm, a combination? I guess the parents are in most cases more involved. Also it's harder in some respects to teach imaginatively to a class of wee ones than teach to exam a class of big ones (no disrespect to MrM, but my experience, ex was a secondary teacher).

Also in the case of one friend, a lot more special needs/social needs cases in one class. I know a significant proportion o his time involves meetings about kids in care,'update meetings on treatment/behaviour etc. Not sure how this works at secondary.

Grockle · 01/03/2012 19:44

MrsMc, I'm grateful too - I love my job so I'm not complaining, and I love that I get to do much of my paperwork at home, when DS is in bed.

What do I do? Planning (long, medium & short-term), assessments, recording progress, collecting data & making predictions, making resources, presentations, writing reports/ reviews (I have to do it twice a year), IEPs (at least twice a yr, doing reports for OTs/ doctors etc, risk assessments...

Grockle · 01/03/2012 19:45

But, because I work with children with SLD, there is no marking. Gone are my days of marking 108 books every night, phew!

BackforGood · 01/03/2012 19:46

This is similar to the 'do you go in to parents evenings on your non working days' thread recently.
My answer has always been - it depends on the attitude of the HT / SMT. From what you are saying about yours, I would be letting them know that I am not obliged to work on my days off and that I have other commitments on a Monday {or whatever day it is}. Full stop. they don't need to know what they are, or if they even exist. However, over the years I've worked for some much better 'people managers' than yours, and, generally, with something important like Safeguarding, which has to be done, and has to be done as a whole staff really, then I would usually offer to come in, and then "bank" the hours and then take them back when I wanted to take one of my children to an appt or something.
Flexibility, or rigid sticking to the rules has to be a two way process. They need to decide what they want.

Original poster

MatchsticksForMyEyes · 01/03/2012 19:57

The managerial style at my school seems to be to crush us into submission and guilt trip us into complying. Had they said "Look, we know its your day off, but we will pay your expenses if you come in", I would have been far more amenable. I have attended all twilight meetings that aren't required of me as the disaggregated inset days don't fall on my working days because I thought they were valuable.
I know CP is very much valuable, but they are talking about making a woman on mat leave come in for it too and I think they are taking the piss.
I guess I will have to go in, but I resent the way I am being railroaded into it.

OP posts:

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