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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to ask why the f**k tube staff want more for working during the Olympics

78 replies

DreamingofSummer · 28/02/2012 11:41

What difference does it make? To me they are simply seeking a ransom payment

www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/feb/28/tube-workers-dispute-olympic-pay

OP posts:
coolascucumber · 28/02/2012 13:43

Just for balance - remember a big chunk of any bonus or overtime payments will go back to the government in tax so the tube staff won't be pocketing huge amounts extra. Staff may be travelling into work with different shift patterns and so may have to accommodate extra childcare payments and if it is anything like the police they will have had leave cancelled for months on end. So, no family holidays this summer and longer travelling time to work.

I wouldn't want to work underground for hours on end. It could drive you mad. Workers who have to work shifts are also at higher risk of high blood pressure, depression, shorter life expectancy.

citybranch · 28/02/2012 13:46

Yes niceguy2 agreed that paramedics and nurses deserve to be fairly paid but the thing is, it's very difficult to compare professions and put a value upon them. My friend is a nurse and she says she wouldn't like to do what I do, in respect of the lone working. She has a team around her to share some of that responsibility. If I get an alarm in my cab while I'm in the tunnel that says a door is open, Its packed like sardines back there, my actions could result in a huge delay and angry passengers as I squeeze through and check each door...or I could say fuck it and cut out the alarm, bit the risk is that a door may actually be faulty and open and I could drag somebody to their death. There is no one to help with that decision. The controller would advocate cutting out the alarm despite the risk of the faulty door, but it Is ultimately my decision. And not an easy one to take alone! I'm just trying to give some food for thought.

slug · 28/02/2012 14:03

Lots of people have the time they take holidays restricted. Teachers are a good example. Lots of people have to deal with seasonal fluctuations in workload. Lots of people have to work unsociable shifts. Lots of people have to put up with horrid working conditions. Lots of people have to work in dangerous or difficult jobs with little or no support networks. Lots of us will have our lives made more difficult by the Olympics.

However, we don't regularly (and by that I mean several times a year) hold a whole city to ransom for even more money. Do I think tube drivers are overpaid? To be fair, having woked in plenty of lonely, difficult, dangerous, shiftwork jobs, yes I do.

I'm always Hmm at Bob Crow banging on about how the workers deserve all they can get out of the Tube bosses, while simultaneously ignoring just how much damage their constant strikes do to the jobs and the pay conditions of other workers in the capital. It's just rank hypocracy in my book.

DreamingofSummer · 28/02/2012 14:37

Citybranch Excellent posts, it's good to hear the practicalities instead of the rhetoric

Shandy I simply don't believe 3 hour queues

I still think that the demand for bonus payments is no more than blackmail

OP posts:
citybranch · 28/02/2012 14:43

Agreed that the RMT strike far too regularly over smaller issues which is why I left them and joined a different union. Therefore I'm in work as usual on strike days and like you, my commute is a nightmare (it already takes me 90 minutes on a good day!) so I completely see where you are coming from. I would be happy enough to do this job for several grand less but it wages were cut drastically I'd prefer to seek a job with more social interaction, maybe a sense of job satisfaction and a feeling that I was 'making a difference' rather than just rattling around in the dark all day.

As for overpaid, I don't disagree with that BUT I have a sister who works 2 days a week in retail who gets tax credits for 3 children and she takes home a few hundred less than me per month. That's absolutely fine, as that is what the government have deemed a satisfactory amount for her to live on. Her ex pays nearly 500 CSA so that's nearly as much as my DH brings home. I don't begrudge it at all but if they are satisfactory amounts for families to live on then why am I considered overpaid? My commute alone is 15+ hours per week which is just under the hours that my sister works. Obviously there are other benefits that I get which make it worthwhile for me to remain with LU which is why I do as I do...but if you narrow it down quite simply to 'overpaid or not' I truly can't see that what I earn is out of this world.

slug · 28/02/2012 16:30

citybranch, honestly, I'm not getting at you personally, but ask a teacher who routinely works a 60 hour week, or a nurse who works in a stressful and dangerous job with people's lives in their hands every day, or a paramedic who works shifts and frequently puts their lives on the line, all for under half what a tube driver earns, whether there is something skewed with this? When I left teaching I had been doing it for 12 years. I have two degrees a postgraduate qualification and numerous top up courses and qualifications, all done at my own expense and in my own time. I've dealt with knives, seizures, fights and students fleeing forced marriages. I was regularly and routinely abused as a normal part of my working week. My working week was in excess of 60 hours a week and I worked all the way through my holidays. When I left I was still paid less than a tube driver. And I got no money, let alone a bonus for overtime or dangerous working conditions. And I had to struggle in, just like you, on the tube strike days. I was only a teacher. The nurses, paramedics, care workers et all have it far worse than me and my cushy in comparison job.

I know many people whose jobs become untenable during the tube strikes. I've known a few who have been fired for failing to turn up consistently. Not because of their own fault, but because they are on short term contracts ro on probation and a tube strike in the middle of it meant they dipped under the bar.

Why does TFL have less station staff than they would like? It's because the cost of paying the drivers limits the amount they can pay on other staff. Ifound this out from a friend who did a long term contract at TFL. Whether or not you agree with Bob Crow and his tactics, you benefit from them in terms of wages and conditions. At the expense of others.

Motherload · 29/02/2012 02:22

Don't care, I'm afraid. The Olympics are all about London, so may as well be on another planet as far as I'm concerned.

iscream · 29/02/2012 03:08

It is their job, it is only for two weeks. My husband works underground, 10 hour shifts and you eat/bathroom break when there is a slower time. He gets over- time working any holidays, or extra hours. He wouldn't expect a bonus for doing his job.
I didn't get bonuses working busy days, why should anyone else? It is your job, you are not doing them a favour.

samandi · 29/02/2012 06:23

Because they want more for anything. Sack them all and employ people who actually want to work - there are plenty of them around.

RunnyGrobbles · 29/02/2012 06:47

In This thread, people who don't stick up for themselves and their employment right complain about people that do.

Those RMT bastards, how dare they threaten to stop working if they don't get paid what they think is fair.

BabsJansen · 29/02/2012 06:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lesley33 · 29/02/2012 07:40

citybranch - I am not criticising tube drivers. They are well paid because they do stand up for themselves and are well unionised.

But most big organisations including local government, have formal ways of assessing and comparing the financial value of different jobs and I suspect tube drivers would come out at a lower grade than they are actually paid if this was used.

For example, social workers in child protection who are usually paid less than you have to have a post graduate qualification, work in unpleasant circumstances visiting homes usually alone where people are often aggressive and violent (cp social workers are more likely to be murdered at work than police officers), have to deal with the personal emotional difficulties of heartbreaking situation for young kids, have a lot of responsibility and can be prosecuted if they take the wrong decisions.

Many jobs are paid less than you that have very difficult working conditions and lots of responsibility.

ifancyashandy · 29/02/2012 08:22

Dreaming, it's what I was told by a senior civil servant for Tower Hamlets LA, so not someone doing a PR job on behalf of Tube drivers.

For what it's worth, the queues for the train at either Seoul or Madrid (apologies, too early to remember which it was!) were up to 12 hours at peak times.

'Simply' believe or not, I've nothing to gain either way!

niceguy2 · 29/02/2012 08:26

Hi Citybranch

I'm not suggesting your job does not carry a great degree of responsibility but just that there are many other jobs which do as well. I also appreciate your posts as an insight into the reality of the job.

My main issue is that at a time where the country is supposed to be coming together and thousands of people will also be working extra hard doing equally responsible (if not more) jobs. And many are even volunteering their time free of charge to make the games a fantastic event.

So what is frustrating is that the RMT are trying to hold the Olympics to ransom just to squeeze a few extra quid out of TFL.

If there wasn't any extra money on the table already then I'd be more sympathetic. But there is and to me it sounds fair enough. We're not talking a long term change here but just a special event over a couple of weeks.

It just smacks me of "As long as I'm alright, I don't care about anything else." attitude. Where's the community spirit? Where's the 'let's come together' attitude?

uruculager · 29/02/2012 08:35

All I really have to add to the discussion.

Takeresponsibility · 29/02/2012 08:53

We (and that is about 20,000 people in my organisation) have had leave banned from 2 weeks before the Olympic games to the end of the paraOlympics. this crosses over Ramadan, school holidays (lots of couples work for us who usually take two weeks AL leave each so they only need to arrange childcare for 2 rather than 6 and is causing problems for lots of people. It is going to be 100% capacity for the entire period. We are not allowed queues and it is going to be like the busiest day of the year everyday for 7 weeks. We will be the first British people anyone sees on entering the country (outed myself here) so we have to represent UK plc when we haven't has a drink for 4 hours, dying for the loo or got a mouthful of cotton wool for having smiled and spoken non stop for hours.

Do we get any extra money/bonus/Annual leave NO! Loads of extra responsibility, loads of extra work, loads of extra grief and all we will get is when one or other of use brings in cake for our colleagues. (A favourite saying of mine at work is "It's gonna be shit, nothing I can do to fix that but I have made cake!")

aldiwhore · 29/02/2012 08:58

I think more industries should be holding people to ransom for better pay and working conditions personally. We tend to roll over and say "its okay to be paid less, but to pay more because we're British, we're in a recession and we're a bunch of mugs".

Good on them. I HATE the Olympics anyway. Sue me.

valiumredhead · 29/02/2012 09:00

And bollox to community spirit Grin

aldiwhore · 29/02/2012 09:03

You shouldn't put up with that takeresponsibility the only reason companies force this on you is because you roll over and let them, you shouldn't let them. They will be making big bucks from being so busy, you won't be benefitting in any way, just getting screwed, and you think cake fixes it?

The company could afford to train temporary staff to help, but its far easier to ban holidays.

Fucking HELL... the way us Brits roll over really REALLY pisses me off.

As for community spirit... we're all in it together? Bollocks, we're not, not at all, and WHY should we be?

chandellina · 29/02/2012 09:03

It is sheer opportunism and there is no valid reason. Most businesses have busy times where leave is restricted. I don't think it is anything to complain about, just part of any employment.

Tube staff have little public sympathy because of their high pay and willingness to strike for petty reasons.

coolascucumber · 29/02/2012 09:07

But it's not just for two weeks. There's the games preparation time and the Paralympics. I'm not sure about the tube drivers but I know that the police have had leave cancelled for months . My husband can take only one week at Easter and then all leave is cancelled until late September. For most of the summer he will be working a 6 day week and not coming home overnight.

limitedperiodonly · 29/02/2012 09:10

Another one who agrees with aldi.

scaryteacher · 29/02/2012 09:11

From what Takeresponsibility has said she works for the UKBA, so I don't think it's a case of temporary staff being the solution.

I'd also like to point out that many of HM Forces have had their leave cancelled for the Games, and will be working away from their bases (and homes) to provide security, with no bonus payments, and they are expected as always to be available 24/7, even if they are about to be made redundant.

breatheslowly · 29/02/2012 09:13

Citybranch - I appreciate your post and the issues you face at work. I don't think your commute is relevant though. While it is a long commute it actually isn't relevant to the role as they would pay someone who lived next door to the depot the same. It is the same for every worker and why you don't get paid for your commute or get to claim mileage.

aldiwhore · 29/02/2012 09:19

There are certain jobs that require you to be on duty, security being the main one. Police, HM Forces, they are state services. And whilst they shouldn't accept anything less than the upmost respect they deserve, it is a very different thing to expect every other job sector to roll over and accept those terms.

I personally think, if the government want to spend millions upon millions upon millions for people to run round a bloody track, to display this fake friendship amongst nations, that's all well and good, but the people who have to live with the charade should be compensated... scrap the bloody fireworks display and the 'our opening ceremony is better than yours' bullshit, and use than money to lessen the inconvenience of the whole thing.

There's a global recession, let the 0.01% of the population who use this country as a tax haven pay for the fucking fireworks out of the hundreds of millions.

Grr.

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