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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not know if describing a person as coloured is politically incorrect.

646 replies

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid · 25/02/2012 19:05

Was talking to a friend today and I mentioned I had met one of his colleagues (but I wasn't sure who). He said. Oh was she a coloured lady?

I said yes and we each knew who it was I had met. I was a bit taken aback as you don't really hear the word coloured used anymore. But it was probably the best way to describe her (kind of Mediterranean / Indian).

Was I being too politically correct for being Shock at the way he described her?

OP posts:
Whatmeworry · 27/02/2012 17:04

So, in summary, the rules of PC are as explained on this thread are:

  1. We get to define the un PC words, no one else does
  2. We can't justify the inclusion or exclusion of any one word rationally, nor will we use criteria rigorously
3 Nor will we list the words we have decidec are un PC 4 Nor will we defend our decisions when challenged. It is final, we are Right
  1. We get to crap all over people who use the words we think are un PC because we are now In The Right
  2. We can change any word as in or out of PC at any time, and even change its meaning depending on what we infer as it's intent at the time.
  3. You are not allowed to question this arrangement in any way
  4. If you do question it you automatically an a X-ist, and a Y -ist and Z -ist by extension.
  5. We also get the right to insult anyone who does question this setup, because they deserve it.
10. If we insult them with an un PC word its OK because we can temporarily remove the offensiveness of the word to suit us. The meaning of the word however still remains offensive if used by a non PC person, even at the same time in the same context.

Here endeth the lesson.

(PS I read the link, there are some nice examples of semantic shift on there. Have you told the West Indies cricket team they are Un-PC yet?)

perceptionreality · 27/02/2012 17:13

It's kinder to assume someone is a 'moron' (ie 'notably lacking in judgment' as per dictionary), than it is to assume they're just plain nasty.

Has to be one or the other.

scurryfunge · 27/02/2012 17:14

Whatme - you are making yourself look silly now. Read Clothes post with particular reference to intelligence and social skills.

PeppyNephrine · 27/02/2012 17:18
  1. THERE ARE NO PCWORDS: POLITICAL CORRECTNESS DOES NOT EXIST.
  2. YOU GOT YOUR LIST, SO WHY STILL WHINING?
  3. YOU ARE REALLY MAKING YOURSELF LOOK LIKE A TWAT NOW.

Ooh, lists are fun, aren't they?

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 27/02/2012 17:18

'In summary' of what, whatme? Some shit you just thought of?

perceptionreality · 27/02/2012 17:19

I have to wonder why whatme will go to such lengths to deny 'coloured' is an offensive word. But now I do now remember her on another thread trying to justify it's ok for a teacher to encourage racist stereotypes........what's the point eh?

OriginalJamie · 27/02/2012 17:23
  1. I like to argue the toss
  2. It's PC Gorn Mad
  3. Some things change. I find that hard to understand
  4. I wouldn't know a rational argument if it stood up in my soup
tethersend · 27/02/2012 17:33

"1. We get to define the un PC words, no one else does"

If by 'we', you mean 'speakers of the English language within the UK', then you're right.

"2. We can't justify the inclusion or exclusion of any one word rationally, nor will we use criteria rigorously"

No, because language does not work 'rationally'- words are arbitrarily ascribed to things. Anyone looking for rational justification for a word's usage will be disappointed.

"3 Nor will we list the words we have decidec are un PC"

Some refused, some provided and handy link. This erroneously assumes that people on this thread are in charge of the English language.

"4 Nor will we defend our decisions when challenged. It is final, we are Right"

Decisions? What decisions? This is an odd thing to say, as you have spent most of the thread refuting your opponents' 'defence' of their arguments.

"5. We get to crap all over people who use the words we think are un PC because we are now In The Right"

If by 'crap all over' you mean 'assume racist leanings in' and by 'words we think are un PC, you mean 'racist/offensive words', then that's pretty accurate.

"6. We can change any word as in or out of PC at any time, and even change its meaning depending on what we infer as it's intent at the time."

Back to point 1 here- if 'we' refers to speakers of the English language (within the UK), then yes. This is how language develops.

"7. You are not allowed to question this arrangement in any way"

But you have. This is very odd. You have questioned it again and again. Who is telling you you are not allowed to do so?

"8. If you do question it you automatically an a X-ist, and a Y -ist and Z -ist by extension."

If you would like to use offensive language, you will offend. If you don't care, that's fine. It doesn't mean you have not offended anyone.

"9. We also get the right to insult anyone who does question this setup, because they deserve it."

You have lumped in a lot of posters who have argued an opposing view to yours with one poster who used the word 'Moron'. This does not weaken anyone else's argument, so it is churlish to dismiss any counter argument for this reason.

"10. If we insult them with an un PC word its OK because we can temporarily remove the offensiveness of the word to suit us. The meaning of the word however still remains offensive if used by a non PC person, even at the same time in the same context."

This makes no sense- the value of an offensive word is in its offensiveness. So to pretend that there are non-offensive offensive words is utterly baffling. Offensive words signify different things though- there are levels and types of offence; many words will lead the audience to make assumptions about the user; that they are misogynistic, disablist, racist, sexist and so on. It is up to the user to decide, once aware of a word's meaning and they can caculate the 'risk', whether to use it or not. The meaning of a word cannot be altered by the person using it unless it is put in context; the idea that a word spoken by me and the same word spoken by you has a different meaning due to our differing opinion is, well, a bit odd.

I wish you hadn't posted your last post, actually Whatme. I disagree with everything you have said on this (and almost any) thread, but you always sounded calm and in control of your argument; save for ignoring any arguments you don't want to address Wink. Those points above have made you sound, well- paranoid and a little hysterical. It's a shame.

OriginalJamie · 27/02/2012 17:36

or what tether said

Sannebanana · 27/02/2012 17:44

Haven't read the whole thread, but as a South African I would avoid using it at all costs, too many bad associations etc. Though I don't know if it ever had the same meaning here as it does out there, so perhaps it's not so offensive here?

DoesBuggerAll · 27/02/2012 17:52

HoneyandHaycorns Mon 27-Feb-12 12:42:51

"Is it laughable that I should take offence on behalf of my husband who has been the victim of a vicious racially motivated attack? Is it laughable that I should take offence on behaf of my best friend, whose daughter is currently the victim of racist bullying in school? Is it laughable that I should take offence on behalf of colleagues who have failed to progress in their careers because their faces don't fit?..."

Just where do all these racists live? I struggle to think of many instances where I've encountered racist attitudes anywhere. There was no racist bullying at my secondary school (early 80s). We had probably 50 non-white children there, quite a few more white non-British (or at least with one non-British parent) and in all my time at school I never, ever heard a remark directed at someone because of the colour of their skin. Not ever.

I have, since entering the world of work, had a couple of instances where a white colleague said something racist about another non-white colleague and obviously expected to be talking to a fellow soulmate, they were somewhat shocked to see the look of digust and disapproval on my face. This has only happened a few times though in my 25 years since I left school. Perhaps I just associate in more enlightened circles?

perceptionreality · 27/02/2012 17:56

'non white' is also an offensive term.

OriginalJamie · 27/02/2012 18:02

DoesBuggerAll - fair enough, this is your experience. Are you saying others have not experienced racism? I suspect you are more likely to notice it if it has been directed at you

HoneyandHaycorns · 27/02/2012 18:05

Perhaps I just associate in more enlightened circles?

Possibly.

My DH was attacked about seven years ago in a very deprived area in a south coast town that has seen much better days. The perpetrators were uneducated thugs who blamed all their problems on asylum seekers. As my husband has brown skin, they assumed he must be one of them and so they decided to vent their frustration.

The colleagues who suffered racial discrimination at work were in a small-ish company in London. Going back a good few years, I do not know the situation now.

And my friend's dd is currently being bullied in an exceptionally middle class village school in the heart of England, using language that I thought had gone out of common currency long ago. :(

If you have witnessed little racism, that's great. But sadly, there is still plenty of it around.

perceptionreality · 27/02/2012 18:09

Unfortunately racism is always fairly close by waiting to rear its ugly head.

I was amazed and saddened by the racists that came crawling out of the wood work after the rioting last summer. It does not take much, which is why using racist terminology is completely indefensible.

lambethlil · 27/02/2012 18:10

This thread has jumped the shark.

I can just about cope with whatme and her deliberate misunderstanding, but when a poster questions that there is racism in the UK...

Worlds fail me.

HoneyandHaycorns · 27/02/2012 18:13

I suspect you are more likely to notice it if it has been directed at you

It can be quite subtle, too. I was certainly less aware before I met DH.

OriginalJamie · 27/02/2012 18:14

Me too, Honey. I had a mixed-race boyfriend as a teen. Was suddenly aware of nasty undercurrents every day

HoneyandHaycorns · 27/02/2012 18:22

when a poster questions that there is racism in the UK...

To be fair, I don't know if she was intending to question it, though that's how it came across. But if you have never witnessed or been exposed to that kind of thing, I can understand why you might feel utter disbelief that it still goes on.

I'm sure there was plenty of hidden racism in the town where I grew up, but I was genuinely never aware of it when I lived there. So I get where doesbuggerall is coming from.

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid · 27/02/2012 18:43

My (white) brother was attacked and thinks it was a racist attack. Was three Asian blokes in an unprovoked attack. They called him a white cunt.

Thankfully he can run very fast and no harm was done. I'll bet those men boys really had had a load of racist attacks directed towards them in their lives and this was their way to get revenge.

OP posts:
ilovebabytv · 27/02/2012 18:51

I'll bet those men boys really had had a load of racist attacks directed towards them in their lives and this was their way to get revenge.

Whether that was the case or not, I just dont think that could justify their actions. I was bullied at school and suffered plenty racist remarks growing up, but wouldn't then use that as an excuse/reason to deliberately go out and attack someone.

HoneyandHaycorns · 27/02/2012 18:54

Whether that was the case or not, I just dont think that could justify their actions. I was bullied at school and suffered plenty racist remarks growing up, but wouldn't then use that as an excuse/reason to deliberately go out and attack someone.

Yes, quite. Just underlines how irrational and stupid racism is, really, regardless of where it's coming from or who it is directed at. :(

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid · 27/02/2012 18:56

Of course it doesn't justify anything. My brother is the least violent person I know and I hate that anyone would want to attack him.

I just think violence begets violence. Was just giving an example of an attack. No attack is justified, ever.

OP posts:
OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere · 27/02/2012 19:10

The racism round here is terrible and overt.
Its mostly directed at asian/indian people.
Less so at afro carribean people. It is still there but people seem less willing to front up to a black youth and are more likely to do it to an asian woman. Wonder why Hmm

You only have to read some of the threads on gypsies to see that it is still rife about certain groups.

HoneyandHaycorns · 27/02/2012 19:16

Haven't you got an essay to be getting on with? Grin

Interesting point about racism being directed more towards people of Asian origin. I wonder if it has anything to do with the increasing prejudice against Islam. DH has been called an Islamic terrorist twice in the last couple of years, and I can only presume they link him to Islam because he is Asian. It's not something I remember being a focus before. Confused