To not know if describing a person as coloured is politically incorrect.

[WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid]

Was talking to a friend today and I mentioned I had met one of his colleagues (but I wasn't sure who). He said. Oh was she a coloured lady?

I said yes and we each knew who it was I had met. I was a bit taken aback as you don't really hear the word coloured used anymore. But it was probably the best way to describe her (kind of Mediterranean / Indian).

Was I being too politically correct for being at the way he described her?

i believe it is to do with colonialism. the orient originally meant east of europe (orient express went to turkey, oriental rugs from iran/persia) but then over the last century it has been used describe those from south east asia. The meaning has changed but some people just might not want to be associated with that term because of its history

it sounds very white supremacist/bnp/nf /english defence league to decide what is and what is not offensive for others. some may not mind the term oriental or even coloured (have yet to meet a black person who is ok with this term) but if some do, even a small percentage then why use it

"and its perfectly ok to say you are unsure...instead of getting all hot under the collar and complaining that the world has gone 'PC Mad'"

Exactly bejeezus.

Simply black and white is offensive it divides people into two groups. To me it feels too much like the apartheid idea of them and us.
The world is a far richer more wonderful place than that. People are not on simple label for colour, race and religion, however helpful that is for an ethnic monitoring form.

You would only not realise these phrases are inappropriate if you never read a paper, watch the news or anything generally on mainstream tv.

When people say coloured I assume they are uneducated and insular.

My in laws say coloured. They also use racial descriptors when they aren't needed. Uneducated and insular.

"Coloured" was a legal racial classification in South Africa but long ago passed into local parlance and is not an offensive term at all when applied to the group that identifies itself as "coloured".

Not all SA coloured people are Malay, or even from the Cape. So Cape Malay or Malay is not appropriate for all SA coloured people. Or those in Namibia.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coloured
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coloured_People_in_Namibia

...I would never use the term freely in a country other than South Africa or Namibia though. if i mention this group to others, i preface it with "they call themselves this, it's used in political discourse even, i know it sounds offensive but it's not in their context"

i use black, Asian, etc to describe people. OP i would think your friend was a bit weird to use "coloured" tbh. i would think them either out-of-touch or racist, reserving judgement until more evidence became available.

having said that... in Canada for example, "Asian" people are ONLY people from China, Korea, Vietnam, etc. People from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh etc. are "Indian". Which strikes me as stupid since India is in Asia. If you use Asian for an Indian person, [white] Canadians get quite catsbumface ime and start trying to politely correct you.

Whereas in the UK ime, "Indian-looking" people seem to self-identify as Asian. (Which is good because i feel sort of shitty calling a person "Indian" when i have no idea whether they actually come from India and not from Pakistan etc.)

it is all dreadfully confusing particularly as you travel to different countries, so i just try to be frank as much us i can and be ready to apologise if anyone gets miffed.

In the main, it is the intent that makes something racist and not the actual word.

I pretty much live by this. There is no clear guide in what is racist, and one person's racist term in another's accepted term. Personally I dont find oriental a racist term, and even on occasion have described myself as such, but someone up thread has declared this a racist term. (Which is fine for them, but it doesn't change my view of the word and i shall continue to use it). Other people have used the word 'Chinky' in my presence, to describe a takeaway, and while i found it a bit uncomfortable, wasn't offended and did not view it as racism. Being half Scottish I was once called a 'Haggis Tramp' by an English person, which was intended to be racist and malicious, and have in my childhood been called chinky, but I think im thick skinned and for me its water off a ducks back.

However if I used a word which someone found offensive then I would apologise to them, and would be more cautious in future about using it.

?He who takes offence when no offence is intended is a fool, and he who takes offence when offence is intended is a greater fool.? - I remember being told this in Sunday School and although am not particularly religious in anyway now, still think it carries weight.

i love that line, it's great. although MN would grind to a halt if everyone abided by it.

ilovebaby - I think if you asked a load of British Chinese people they would say Chinky is indeed offensive.

i reckon so, edam. and as a kid i was very aware that there was a difference in the kids who were allowed to say 'paki's' for the shop and those who were not. it was an interesting social divider, in retrospect.

Edam, thats my point though, whats offensive for one might not offend the next. Im Scottish chinese and while people using the work chinky to describe a take away does not overly offend me, (i do find this use uncomfortable) I would take offence if they were using it a malicious way.

quite - paki and chinky are equally offensive.

Its how the word is used, the N word is a great example of that. I know people of all different races who use this, usually as informal banter, and it is not considered racist, yet if it was said with malicious intent by anyone, then it would definitely be racist.

Chinky is offensive, and so is gwei loh.

YY to what oikopolis said - the only country where coloured is an acceptable term is South Africa where it is in constant political and social use as the accurate description for a particular race of people, and is indeed used by the coloured race to describe themselves.

I wouldn't call anyone of mixed race/Asian descent coloured outside of SA though as it carries the old American connotations. OP, if the guy was referring to someone of Asian descent, then it doesn't sound like he was using it in the old degrading American way, as "coloured" then was specifically a term for black people.

Is the guy you were speaking to South African by any chance? Even if he is, though, I'm very surprised he didn't clarify the use of the word in South Africa at all, as it's clearly not common knowledge and needs explaining.

Er, 'chinky' is very racist - it's vile.

'Its how the word is used'

I disagree. It doesn't matter who uses the word. 'Banter' is a way by which many people express casual racism. Which is equally as damaging as any other. If you think it's ok for anyone to perpetuate racism by use of racist terminology you're kidding yourself.

Well we'll have to agree to disagree because i very much believe it is how the word is used. Racism to me is the belief that one person believes themselves superior to another person based on race (obviously) and if that intent is not there then I wont accuse anyone of racism.

ruddynorah Sun 26-Feb-12 15:59:53
"You would only not realise these phrases are inappropriate if you never read a paper, watch the news or anything generally on mainstream tv. "

Well I don't watch soap operas of any kind. I don't watch reality TV shows. I don't watch the X-Factor or other such nonsense. I don't read any tabliod paper, or for that matter any other paper (do read BBC news and some papers online though). I tend to focus on stories that interest me so mostly read science, education and health articles. I grew up knowing that 'black' was offensive and was in my late thirties before I used it in front of a black person. Up till then I would have said, and did say coloured when talking about them (well actually I would use their name of course but if someone still didn't know who I was talking about I would have given them a clue by saying coloured). I'm not racist. Never have been and detest all racism. It doesn't sit well with my Catholicism.

Agreed, perception; words mean what they mean.

Intention can only tell us about the person using the word; the word's meaning doesn't change with a person's intentions.

I could go to a smart Paris restaurant and order enculer, truly believing it is a tasty hors d'oeuvre. It wouldn't change the word's meaning. I'd still be forcibly ejected from the premises.

Words can be racist without the person using them meaning them to be.

If they continue to use them once it's been pointed out, however...

Surely the accepted definition is that a racist incident is one perceived to be racist (after Stephen Lawrence) so all the posts about it only being racist if you meant it to be are somewhat behind the times.

Im not sure 100% and will accept that im wrong but i remember reading that the law has to prove there was hosility from the accused based on the race of the victim, or something to that effect.

I've heard Taliban used to describe, a possibly Sikh, van driver.
Yes people drive like idiots on our lanes, but that is positively offensive and wrong.

Wasn't sure so had a quick look -

To prove that an offence is racially or religiously aggravated, the prosecution has to prove the "basic" offence followed by racial or religious aggravation, as defined in section 28 Crime and Disorder Act 1998. An offence will be racially or religiously aggravated if:

a) at the time of the offence (or shortly before or after), the offender demonstrates to the victim hostility based on the victim's membership (or presumed membership) of a racial or religious group, or

b) the offence is motivated wholly or partly by hostility towards members of a racial or religious group based on their membership (or presumed membership) of that group.

This is from the CPS website.

Ilovebabytv I think that is right, in the case of a hate crime prosecution.

..But suppose your boss at work kept using the word coloured in front of a black colleague because he "didn't agree that it was offensive" you couldstill claim harassment due to race, even though he didn't "mean" it.