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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think abortion law is a tough nut to crack?

999 replies

chandellina · 24/02/2012 12:03

so the Telegraph has revealed doctors allowing abortion on sex-selection grounds. I see a couple threads on In the News expressing disgust over this, a view shared by many, I'm sure.

But as far as I understand you can have an abortion on demand for just about any reason - not feeling able to cope, not feeling financially secure, too young, too old.

So even if you were terminating for gender, couldn't you just give another reason? And if you believe in a woman's absolute right to choose - why require a stated reason at all?

My point is that the law seems very flimsy, and why be moral about sex selection and not other things - like terminating because a pregnancy interferes with a desired age gap between children, or it otherwise not being "the right time." I know there are cultural issues involved too with gender selection, but those probably are also in play for women coerced by family not to have a child out of wedlock, etc.

thoughts?

OP posts:
IUseTooMuchKitchenRoll · 24/02/2012 19:39

I know what counselling is thanks. I have never read life or any other website.

KalSkirata · 24/02/2012 19:39

thats not what I said gordy.
Same limits for all babies. 9 months.
I hear the 'suffer' thing quite a lot and yet out of hundreds of disabled kids I know, the ones that tend to have a tougher time with regards to pain are those with cerebral palsy. Which you cant test for anyhow.

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere · 24/02/2012 19:40

Iuse you do realise that that scan is called an anomaly scan dont you?

Its for spotting abnormaliites not for showing you what your babies look like.
So you didnt have the triple? Did you refuse it then?
What did they say when you said no because I got quite a hard time for not wanting it.

PattiMayor · 24/02/2012 19:41

KitchenRoll - the fact that the abortion cut off date is 24 weeks is already a compromise.

I'm really on the fence on the gender issue. On one hand, I abhor people choosing children on the basis of gender and I wonder how many women do that freely or because of societal pressure. On the other, if I think it is entirely a woman's right whether or not to carry a foetus to term, then that probably should also be a valid reason. I know that more female foetuses are aborted than male ones though which is why abortion on sex selection is banned in so many countries.

IUseTooMuchKitchenRoll · 24/02/2012 19:41

Mrs DeVere, I have never pretended to have all the answers to lifes problems, I just don't believe that abortion is a good solution to life's problems either.

It's ending life, and I believe that is wrong.

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere · 24/02/2012 19:42

Gordy - personally I would rather give birth to a life limited child than terminate but that is MY choice.
I wouldnt want to put anyone else through it.
But it doesnt make me lacking in compassion because I would go through with it.
I dont think that a fair comment.

Northernlurker · 24/02/2012 19:42

Mrsdevere - my midwife seemed very surprised when I refused it too. No idea why - she presented it as an option then was clearly taken aback when I opted out.

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere · 24/02/2012 19:43

iuse for someone who doesnt pretend to have all the answers you are very free with our opinons on what other women should do to their bodies and minds.

For someone so resolute in your beliefs you are also pretty quick to back off when the questions get difficult.

gordyslovesheep · 24/02/2012 19:44

yes but I am talking about babies with no chance of life - as I said :)

Disabled children are no less or more valid than any other - I agree with your point about equality of timescale totally

Ohdo - I doubt it - if her definition of counselling is anything to go by

IUseTooMuchKitchenRoll · 24/02/2012 19:44

Knew what the anomaly scan was called, and that it was to look for abnormalities, but that didn't stop me wanting to see. Of course I also wanted to know if my baby was ok?

I'm not sure what the triple is.

GrahamTribe · 24/02/2012 19:45

If this theory of forcing women to give birth to unwanted babies with the intention that the babies should be adopted afterwards was carried out and if some women changed their minds and wanted to keep the baby following its birth I wonder how long it would be before those babies would be automatically put upon the "at risk" SS register.

FWIW I honestly feel that I would experience far less long term grief and MH issues having an abortion than I would if I were forced to have a child I didn't want to have and then hand the child over for adoption.

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere · 24/02/2012 19:46

northern with both DC 4 & 5 I was booked in for a nuchal despite expressly stating that I did NOT want them.

I was treated like a nusiance because my turning down the nuchal meant rebooking my scans.
For DC5 I had to turn up for the nuchal and tell the sonographer that I just wanted an ordinary scan.

So much for choice hey? Hmm

IUseTooMuchKitchenRoll · 24/02/2012 19:48

Quick to back off? I feel like I'm single handedly putting the other side f the debate at the moment while there are loads of you on here that disagree with me. If I was being quick to back off I'd have gone as soon as I realised there was more than two people opposing me on here.

It is ok to be resolute in the belief that abortion is wrong. There are lots of people that think so, and it would be a boring world if all our beliefs were the same.

cherrytopping · 24/02/2012 19:49

Mrs DeVere, I have never pretended to have all the answers to lifes problems, I just don't believe that abortion is a good solution to life's problems either.

It's ending life, and I believe that is wrong.

And counselling women against their will? You seemed pretty confident that was a solution to the problem of women getting pregnant with unwanted babies until they were able to give it to SS and this would keep them mentally fit...

... now suddenly when challenged you don't have all the answers...

erm... ok...

Northernlurker · 24/02/2012 19:51

And it would be a cruel and terrible world if your anto-women beliefs held sway iuse.

Try this thought on for size- abortion is wrong for me so I won't have one then. Abortion may be right for you so you make up your own mind.

Can you stretch your mind to encompass that point of view? Because that's what 'choice' means. It's not wrong.

IUseTooMuchKitchenRoll · 24/02/2012 19:51

Don't women get offered counselling to help them make the descison about having an abortion then?

cherrytopping · 24/02/2012 19:52

yes they do. but they have a choice whether they want to take it or not.

IUseTooMuchKitchenRoll · 24/02/2012 19:53

Yes, I can stretch my mind to encompass that view. But I still think that just because abortion might be right for 'you', it might not be right for your unborn child, who I believe has a right to consideration too.

IUseTooMuchKitchenRoll · 24/02/2012 19:55

I don't think they should have a choice whether to take it or not. They are about to end a life, they should at the very least give up an hour to someone who could help them consider their feelings.

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere · 24/02/2012 19:55

Fair enough Gordy Smile

iuse the triple test is done at around 16 weeks to check for risk of Down syndrome and neural tube defects and some other conditions.

When I had DCs 1 & 2 it was done without consultation, I didnt know any better and just had it. I dont know if that is still the case but although it is optional it appears to be more like routine to me. I had to opt out of it with DCs 4 & 5.
Because I would not have terminated.
Not because I am pro life but because that would be MY choice.

So I am bit suprised that someone as pro life as you would not have made the conscious choice not to have any prenatal testing.

AThingInYourLife · 24/02/2012 19:55

"But I still think that just because abortion might be right for 'you', it might not be right for your unborn child, who I believe has a right to consideration too."

Define what "consideration" you think should be given to something incapable of independent life?

PattiMayor · 24/02/2012 19:56

KitchenRoll - why do you think that, in countries where abortion is illegal, so many women end up having unsafe abortions or attempting to abort the foetus themselves? They could all just carry their pregnancies to term and have their babies adopted, couldn't they? But they don't.

Doesn't that tell you something?

gordyslovesheep · 24/02/2012 19:57

no they are offered counselling to discuss all their options - inluding adoption - counselling is never about making people feel or do anything

cherrytopping · 24/02/2012 19:57

Its rather patronising to assume that pregnant women aren't capable of making that decision on behalf of their unborn child, but as soon as the baby is born they suddenly are capable of making every decision on behalf of that child in their best interests tbh.

AThingInYourLife · 24/02/2012 19:58

"They are about to end a life, they should at the very least give up an hour to someone who could help them consider their feelings."

I can assure you that forcing me to have spent an hour in counselling wouldn't have "helped" me consider my feelings.

It would have made fuck all difference except to make me feel more traumatised and upset.

But that appears to me a bonus for you.