Mumsnet should stop running ads from workfare companies

[stella1w]

eg. Boots

As proposed it means terminally ill people have to do it.
Terminally ill people have to boost the profits of companies making billions.

Is that right?

Who is going to care for my children whilst I'm doing those 30 hours a week? They're not all in school hours, and actually not all my kids are AT school full time. No way can I pay for childcare at £30 an hour out of my carers allowance and income support. How are my kids getting to their appointments whilst I'm boosting profits of these companies?

Do you support the UC version ragged?

Where disabled and carers are made to participate?

Where Dh will have to stop working to care for the disabled boys if I am placed on it?

Do you think it's sensible to shove me in Tescos instead of having something tailored to my actual qualifications which might help me source the best job I can do- one using my post grad quals? And therefore maximise my tax output.

Are you OK with terminally ill people being placed on it?

If you accept the model of UC we have now then you are quietly accepting the test run of the whole picture, which comes in after October next year. They are PR people first and foremost: they know that this is arguable with the use of 'not compulsory' (if you even express interest then decide against it you have your benefits stopped but no, nobody will physically haul you there) and long term JSA, and that people have short attention spans so when they have bored people with the current workfare model the new version will be less worrisome to sneak in.

It is REALLY worth reading the Paper on Universal credit; try and work out how people in training can qualify for any help from the state after it comes in (they can't), how people dropped from carer status (presumably most of them as I guess most people care for someone on MR DLA) can suddenly access childcare despite cuts to the very few services available. How people can find childcare at a week's notice even when so many areas have six month waiting lists as a universal thing.

Try and work out how an economy that has 22 people chasing every vacancy (if you don't include jobseekers not currently claiming JSA such as carers wanting to work, people on ESA, students about to qualify, people on IS...) can suddenly find increased hours for everyone on 16 hour per week contracts who need TC help, or second jobs for every family on a low income with one parent as a SAHP or carer.

It doesn't work. It is purely an attempt to do away with Tax credits by a very sneaky back door mechanism that hardly anyone thinks will affect them. In reality only families earning over about £18k or where both work will NOT be affected, alongside a small percentage of carers and disabled: a very small percentage, someone estimated 11%.

Glitter

they will open more LD Units staffed by workfare people, none of whom want to be near our kids so are likely to become abusive when threatened by them, and wonder why our kid's needs get worse when the staff change every 6 weeks.

They will provide 'childcare' of a quality that we dread but we will have no choice: send the kids to these centres or starve and lose our homes.

Don't forget the proposal that any parent with a child over 5 who has been claiming JSA for over a year will be penalised by having their housing allowance reduced by 10 %.

How the Hell is punishing families for failing to find work in an economy of close to 3 million unemployed going to help anyone?
It won't even help the coffers of the government, because when families are becoming homeless and having to be put in B and B's it will cost a whole lot more.

Workfare and UC are all about scapegoating and frankly punishing the poor and the vulnerable.
I find it hard to believe there can be an economic reason behind it, because it is going to cause untold crime, homelessness and social problems, all of which put a strain on the state purse.

I am boycotting all of these companies using workfare. (Not hard as I am skint!).
MN should boycott their ads, absolutely.

YaDNbu. I think this post might get moved to politics, the other thread just did.

I completely agree. Boycott the ads. Hit them where it hurts- in the pocket. I'm doing the weekly shop at Sainsbury's this afternoon. I normally go to ASDA, but I'm prepared to pay the extra for my weekly shop until they stop using Workfare (Sainsbury's pulled out last week, btw).

And for those who think that all unemployed people are feckless, workshy scroungers who spend all their time sitting on their arses watching Jeremy Kyle- well, you just carry on thinking that if it gives you some kind of sense of superiority.

But just remember- every unemployed person taken on through Workfare will continue to receive JSA. That's, what- £60-£70 p/w at the moment? They will continue to get full Housing Benefit. They will be taking the place of someone who would be paying taxes (in a full time job at NMW, I calculate that would be about £30-£40 pw). Plus, apparently employers have been PAID to take Workfare people on (I heard a figure of £2200 per head quoted for Tesco). Plus companies like A4E are being paid MILLIONS to administer this sorry excuse for a scheme.

All in all, that's a hell of a lot of your taxpayers' money going down the plughole, isn't it?

And big companies ARE replacing "proper" jobs with Workfare. Tesco managers have been caught out saying just that. Superdrug cut its paid staffs' hours by 25% to accommodate their Workfare employees (although they have now pulled out of the scheme, too).

Just ask yourself, if you have teenage kids looking for their first job, how many entry-level positions the supermarkets are going to have available if this carries on?

"But just remember- every unemployed person taken on through Workfare will continue to receive JSA. That's, what- £60-£70 p/w at the moment? They will continue to get full Housing Benefit."

So they are not actually working for nothing, are they?

"They will be taking the place of someone who would be paying taxes (in a full time job at NMW, I calculate that would be about £30-£40 pw). "

Your calculations are incorrect on two counts. First, mandatory work experience is for up to 30 hours work per week, not 40. 30 hours at NMW equals £181/week - which would incur tax of £7.61 and National Insurance of £5.14 (total £12.75), giving a take home pay of £169.

Still, at least those taxes paid by the hypothetical worker on NMW can be put towards paying for the unemployed to continue sitting at home, watching Jeremy Kyle. So much better than paying for them to go out and get some sort of work experience.

I will hide all sponsored threads on here for now, it is a bit of action until we hear what mn thinks. Though I think Mumsnet see this as political, because a thread was moved from AIBU into politics today that was about the Workfare programme.

To me this transcends politics and is about human rights.

I certainly haven't seen any party political affiliations coming through in these threads.

Bradbourne are you not listening? Do you actually think carers are 'sat a home watching JK? I can't recall the last time I saw that! Actually I am usually either in an appt or asleep at that time depending on how much kip I got the night before / my timetable.

Do you think people working 22 hrs PW are sat at home watching JK? Under They will be likely to be pout on workfare too after 2013; also anyone self employed, no matter how many hours they work, if their business doesn;t make set wage after a year- even though experts say to expect 3 yeras to make a decent (if any) profit.

As I said- if I get aplced on workfare next eyar, quite likely, then DH has to stop working to care for the boys.

If he then gets placed on workfre we have 2 choices:

1. claim nothing and starve.

1. Give the boys up to care.

I was tempted to make a polite one-post protest in the Tesco sponsored thread when it was still running, earlier on during this controversy, but I felt too timid. I think that in principle, just for a few serious issues, posts like that in sponsored threads should be expected -- like polite UKUncut protests within shops.

You can watch suidice rates rise too; there's already plenty of signs of this and I can assure you- if I lose care of the boys I shall join them.

Billions in benefits go unclaimed, DWP figures show so why are very vulnerable people being vicitmised?

Yes if people want to work they should be supported, but forced and threatened? It is disgusting.

They say it's not targeted.

Well instead of (for example) cutting £25 PW off the tax credits of every disabled child getting MR DLA whose family claim TCs, why not cut £5 PW off every child full stop?

Would';t save me much tbh but would at least be fair and equitable- and probably bring in far more cash too!

I chose to have children, if cuts need to be amde I am willing to face a loss for things I chose. I did not choose their disability.

It's £11bn going unclaimed a year you know.

DLA Fraud is estimated by DWP as £60m PA.

Course we all have an entitlement complex, we live in a 'take everything you can' culture.

twattery.

Sorry, didn't mean to offend you, SanctiMoanyArse.

I was referring to the post above mine (quote): "And for those who think that all unemployed people are feckless, workshy scroungers who spend all their time sitting on their arses watching Jeremy Kyle...".

The thing is, there are undoubtedly the "Shameless" type of benefit layabouts in existence - and then there are people like you who are trying ther d*mned hardest to deal with what life has thrown at them... and then there are also people who are perhaps somewhere in between these extremes. It's no more honest or representative to characterise all benefit-claimants as Frank Gallaghe than it is to make out they are re-incarnations of Mother Teresa.

I support "workfare" as a general principle - if the principle is that people who are capable of work should do something in return for their benefits. (Capable here referring to a person's physical/mental capacity for work and/or their personal circumstances).

Not offended don't worry

And seem to ahve a half hour missing where people were referring to toerh people's quotes- apols.

Workfare has potential is the conditionality (AKA terror) criteria is removed and it is suited to their own needs.

Find me somewhere a day a week that can use my skills for a reference and I am in there, seriously, will start Wednesday (DH's next day off). Charioty sector preferred, as it's where I come from and where I am most useful.

Place me on a week's FT random placement and i'll be on ESA myself within a fortnight from the stress.

And again. Most unemployed people have, or will in the future "pay" for their benefits.
It's called National Insurance. Ever heard of it?
It is an ingenious system whereby you pay insurance to the state against future state dependance.
And again-why should UK citizens pay twice by doing slave labour?

Agree with you Northern.

Sadly, Sancti, as I'm sure you probably already know, you are not permitted to do voluntary work while on JSA, as you should be spending all your time looking for a proper job. Apparently.

Obviously, spending 30 hours a week stacking shelves is going to give you time to send all those applications in and attend all your interviews though, isn't it. Especially with kids to look after too...

Right, I'm going to attempt to do a link....! (IT dolt emoticon)

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/feb/23/jobcentre-hinders-search-for-work?INTCMP=SRCH

Yes you are permitted to do voluntary work when on jsa

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/feb/23/jobcentre-hinders-search-for-work?INTCMP=SRCH

I did it!! Now that I've honed my IT skills and improved my employability by diddling around on Mumsnet, I'd better go and some actual work....

(unpaid by the way, I'm starting my own business up. So far, I'm making a loss or breaking even every month, so up at nights worrying how we're going to survive when the Tories "assume" that I'm making a decent profit every month....)

Oh damn, I didn't see your post, lesley. Are you permitted to do voluntary work, now? That is good. When did they change it? Would you still be forced to do Workfare even if you were already volunteering?