saying "please" to dc

[cazboldy]

Have had a bit of a discussion with my Mum today.....

She told dd2 (4) to pick something up, and dd said "no"

cue my Mum getting annoyed...... when dd piped up and said "you didn't say please nanna"

I admit if they ask me something, like to get a drink for example, i won't do it unless they have said "please" and don't give it to them until they have said "thankyou" which to me seems an obvious way of teaching them manners, and is just a nice thing to do and is polite, so I suppose this was my fault really.

My Mum said she would say please if she had asked her to do something, but that she "wasn't asking, she was telling " which I think was a bit unfair.

So AIBU or was she?

I think you should say please and thank you to everyone regardless of age.

When i was teaching i was horrified that the other teachers in the (particularly rough secondary) school wouldn't say please and thank you to the children. When i asked why? they would laugh and say they were the adults/in charge and shouldn't have to say please to the awful kids. Their contempt was obvious to all including the pupils and it was returned in kind.

I totally agree Spuddybean. I definitely think adults who treat children with contempt reap what they sow. I can't understand how parents who show no courtesy or politeness to their children are so horrified when their children end up showing them no respect as teenagers. The bullying "I'm right because I'm big and you're small" approach might work when they're little but it'll soon wear off when they hit puberty and you're then left with a situation where the person you've disrespected for the their entire lives now has the self-awareness to be disrespectful back, but not the emotional awareness to make the situation better.

All of my teaching supervisors have commented on what a great working relationship I have with the children I teach, and I believe that is because while I do exercise my authority I am always always polite about it. At the very least, if you are polite, there is no way for a situation to escalate. If you attempt to assert authority through the fact that you're older, bigger, or just can shout louder, it's inevitably going to fail at some point.

It depends, was it a favour to nan or was it something DD should have done?

But I agree that we should say please to children. How else will they learn?

I think they were both rude.

Your mum should have shown good manners by saying please.

And your dd should know it is not good manners to lecture other people on manners unless you are in charge of their education.

Absolutely, she should have said please, but DD shouldn't have reprimanded nanna.

I say please to everyone. I even write "please" on my cheques ("Pay MissScholes34's Guide pack ten pounds please", rather than "ten pounds only") - so much more polite.

DS definitely learns by example. He copies us and those around them as do all children.

DS picked up pleases and thank you'd a lot faster when we made a conscious effort to say it to each other. I even use please if I'm telling DS.

So your mum was U.

Being older does not automatically grant you respect.

I also don't think the DD was rude.

I bet you she picked up the retort from someone else.

And I guarantee if someone says to her "you didn't say please", she'll come back with "I wasnt asking, I was telling you"

I reckon this is why people wants kids to be seen and not heard because they make us uncomfortable when they copy us and our imperfect and sometimes illogical behaviour!

Your mum should have just laughed it off insted of making a big thing of it.

I think it depends on the context.

If DD deliberately threw something on the floor in defiance (as DS1 does many times) and it was a bit of a "DD......pick that up....." type thing then I dont think your mum was BU.

If it was something your mum wanted off the floor then yes she should have said please.

Either way I do think your DD was pretty cheeky to have said "No" and speak to your mum like that.

I'm a stickler for manners

Even if I'm 'telling' my kids to do something, I still say please...just in a much firmer 'Don't mess with me' sort of voice.

Your Mum was rude but so was your DD

I believe in lead by example, but I also believe children shouldn't back chat.

She should have done as she was told, and then had a word with you in private about Granny's lack of manners.

No, they don't automatically pick up on good manners....they absorb things that don't matter very much to them- things that don't take energy, or words when reading a book- it's useful, and they pick it up without much thought being involved. But when it's something that's more of an issue, there's a choice and, yes, thought involved and they're much less likely just to pick it up like that. Don't you remember being a kid? It was always like that. Think of the most unlikeliest of things a child can pick up- swear words they've only heard once on holiday or something, and then think of a child who hears good manners all around him and still has to be told off about it.

I reckon your mum is just embarassed at being pulled up on her manners by her own GD.

i don't think dd even processed it enough to consider it and think about being defiant iykwim, I think it was just a kneejerk reaction. A learned behaviour. She is actually an astonishly lovely little girl and school often comment about how polite and well behaved she is. She is generally very laid back, and goes with the flow - probably to do with being part of a "large family"

I feel a bit uneasy about some of you saying that she was "back chatting" or whatever...... so you think that right/wrong whatever a parent says goes? reasonable or not?

I think if expectations/boundaries are set in stone from a young age you can expect more respect, and understanding when they are older e.g teens..... so far (my ds1 is 15) it seems to be working

If it's something i'd insist they do, i'd say "put your toys away now, please". There's no "?" so no real opportunity for "No" to be an acceptable answer.

If it's something i'd like them to do, but they are permitted to say "no", i'd say "could you fetch Mammy the newspaper please?" therefore asking them a question.

oh and she hadn't done anything wrong, my mum had been reaching into the cupboard and knocked something out.

OP, in that case I think your mum should definitely have said please.

As for backchat - if children learn that they can never ever put their own point of view across and contradict the adults in their lives, we will be raising a generation of sheeple who will not stand up for themselves when they have to. Our job as parents is to channel initiative into suitable behaviour (i.e. teaching a child to put their point in a socially acceptable way. This does not mean children rule the roost, it means they are heard as well as seen, within the scope of their own level of maturity).

Being a parent is about give and take and about being big enough, in every way, to admit it to your children when you have been wrong. There is a huge spectrum between being a tyrant and being a completely laissez-faire parent and common sense lies somewhere in the middle.

I get extremely irritated at the artificial divide that is so promoted by the DM and similar publications/sites because actually there is a happy medium. Achieving it might be slightly harder work than sitting comfortably at one extreme of the parenting spectrum or another, though.

I agree with Cory that they were both rude, but I think your mum made it into a bigger issue than it needed to be. Did you point this out to her? And if so, what did she say?

Pointythings yes, I agree completely, but by raising confident children. Those are the ones who can mind their own manners, acknowledge other peoples manners and bite their tongues. My dd1 can do this, but she is no mug. I realise I had a problem with my learn by example. My slightly deaf MIL raised my dd2 from 2-4. Now my dd2 speaks loudly, I always say to her 'speak more quietly'. She is going to say this to MIL, and MIL won't hear because she is a bit deaf. They are going to end up shouting at each other to be quiet.