to think that refusing an organ is not the same as suicide?

[tardisjumper]

DP thinks that a woman on that god awful debate programme is hypocritical for saying that she won't take an organ, IF she is a religious person who is against suicide.

I disagree and feel that refusing treatment is not the same as suicide (and that is the beliefe of most major religions).

I agree with your Dp and StrandedBear has written it how i would have done.

It's Sunday and this is AIBU.

All I can think is that YABU for making me think so hard

It's a tough one!!!

I dont think that you could describe it as suicide. Accepting and refusing treatment are different things, and just because you dont want to accept a particular treatment, that doesnt necessarily mean that you actively want to die.

Some faiths see accepting blood/organs as a form of cannibalism and a fate worse than death.

Taking extreme measures to end your life ie hanging, overdose, stepping under a train by unnatural means is suicide.
Deciding to not accept further medical intervention and die naturally is not.

Difficult one but actually I think I'm more with you tardis. It's choosing the 'natural' death isn't it? Like refusing chemo?

I agree with you, refusing treatment is not the same as suicide, if a cancer patient decided against having more invasive treatment to prolong their life we wouldn't say they were commuting an act of suicide.

Having an organ is a complicated procedure that involves life style changes and taking medication for the rest of your life. To refuse should not be thought of as suicide

If she is religious then she provably believes that only god can end a life. Therefore she thinks suicide is wrong. On the organ issue some religious people would say god is working through the doctors and would therefore accept an organ, while others would believe the doctor is trying to act as a god and that god has decided their time is up and refuse the organ.

So religious people can argue it either way really. I didn't see the programme you are referring to though.

It would depend on your definition/interpretation of the definition of suicide then.

To me actively taking your own life is suicide, choosing not to do something that may (and a transplant is always a 'may') save your life isn't.

Refusing treatment is not suicide.

Suicide is taking action to cause your own death.

Refusing treatment is a different choice entirely.

My Granda died when my Granny agreed that he wouldn't have antibiotics administered by IV.

Did she murder him? Or did she just allow him to die?

Have you heard of
this case ?

Its a few years old now, and to an extent overtaken by events, but this girl seemed to have well founded reasons to not want a heart transplant. It doesnt seem like an attempt at suicide.

Legally, if there was an inquest there would not be a finding of suicide if someone hadnt agreed to an organ transplant.

Just to complicate it further. If she chose the transplant, knowing that a percentage of people will die on the operating table and died, by your DP reckoning she has committed suicide.

Refusing treatment if you are religous, means that you are putting your faith in God. If you are religious, you don't strickly speaking believe in death, as an end of your being, your phsyical body just dies.

You can only commit suicide by carrying out an act with the intent of killing yourself.

Yes it is. Deliberately following a course of action likely to result in death - what else would you class it as?

"Deliberately following a course of action likely to result in death - what else would you class it as?"

Climbing Everest?

Smoking?

Eating too much?

Taking class a drugs?

All suicide?

Or do we need to think about intention when deciding whether someone has chosen to take their own life?

Your DP is in the wrong because he seems to think that religious people should follow some kind of logic when deciding what is and is not acceptable.

If your religion states:
1 - no suicide
2 - no accepting organs
then your god cannot possibly think that refusing an organ is the same as suicide.

It doesn't matter what you think, it matters what your god thinks (or what your religious leaders tell you that your god thinks).

Refusing treatment that will prolong your life is definitely not suicide.

eg some older people/terminally ill people have "do not rescusitate" requests- i.e. they do not want medics to take steps to prolong their lives

Many cancer patients decide to decline further treatment and just be made comfortable in the time they have left.

It's not suicide. It's making a choice about what treatment they will accept, the result of which decision may lead to their death. That is not the same as actively choosing a method to end your life, and going through with it.

Life is 100% terminal. We're all going to die at some point, and some people value quality of life (or religious convictions) over the length of their life.

@athing That's what I htink. Every breath you take you are one step closer to the grave as you are oxidising your insides.

If your DH were right they would also have to charge everyone who ever had a baby with manslaughter, for bringing a life into the world knowing it will end one day.

Accepting a donor organ does not save your life, it merely prolongs it. And in many cases, it does not prolong your life for more than a few years and does not necessarily improve your quality of life.

There is a lot within all major religions concerning the undesirability of painfully and intrusively prolonging life beyond its natural limits. About intrisinsic personhood, dignity etc.

Your DH is being somewhat over-simplistic.

I think there are many good reasons to refuse a donated organ that have nothing to do with religion.

Ie. the operation is very risky and many people die during or soon after an organ is transplanted. A patient might decide to have six months of life rather risk losing their life during an op.

It is a bit like a cancer patient deciding not to have chemo.

If the god awful debate programme is The Big Questions- I watched a bit of it and I heard one woman saying she wouldn't take a transplant or give an organ to her child if they needed one.

I know some religions do not allow it, the body has to return in the same state as it arrived.

(BTW I like the god awful debate programme. Except one of the 'audience 'who frequently pops up. Self opinionated clap-trap spewing pillock that she is)

I agree.