to put the children in economy while DH and I fly business class?

[OfCourseIveNameChangedForThis]

Testing name change.

I have been on a flight that:

-- got delayed on the runway for 5 hours as there was a puncture and we had to wait for the repair. No-one was allowed to move around, there were no refreshments and it was freezing cold.

-- the cabin lost air pressure. Flight between Paris and Manchester. Had to make an unscheduled (not exactly emergency) landing at Gatwick

In both situations, an average 10 year old alone in economy would have been very unsettled.

It's not always plain sailing.

Hope the strangers sitting next to your children will help them if there's turbulence or an emergency.

I am not boasting. Get a life.

Am not overall in favour of children being treated "equally".

My children are expected not to interupt adult conversations -> their need to tell me about their Sylvanian animal comes econd to me discussing virtually anything with a grown up

Children do not need to be treated equally but with respect.

This Business Class question is not, for me, about inequality, it's about safety and security.

YABU - your kids, your responsibility - someone pages ago said they're nearly teenagers...10 is not nearly a teenage IMO. Your kids, your family holiday so be together - they may well sit with the ipod on all the time, so what. Do you not want to be with them anyway? I can't figure why you'd want to be apart - screaming baby/toddler bouncing around is one thing but older children.....sit, chat, general conversation....why not??

I think you're husband is being an idiot and a complete wet lettuce - poor me I need my sleep......blah blah - man up for heavens sake! He sounds like a prize catch!!

And what if you're kids are sat next to some idiot, drunk, perv??? I would not be happy having my kids away from me.

If you can't afford the kind of holiday you want/have always had, then wait a year, or pick a different destination - that's what most families do, regardless of the budget they have.

Flying unassisted is a totally different situation. Would love to get Cabin Crew/Pilots persective on what its like when the parents are supping the booze, chilling out on the bed in Business Class while the kids are elsewhere.....

It's lazy selfish parenting I think. Sadly there are a lot of these parents around.

They're the ones who sitting drinking coffee at toddler groups while other mums wipe their kids noses, get them drinks and wipe up the spills, sort out the little spats with other kids etc.

They're the ones who sit happily chatting on benches in the park while other parents help their children when they're stuck on the climbing frame, distract them when they decide they're bored and want to wander on to the nearby dual carriageway.

And they're the ones who leave someone else to look after their kids on a plane - get the steward's attention when they're thirsty, help them get their hand luggage down when they want things, get up and down when they want to squeeze past to use the toilet, negotiate with the stewardess when they cheekily try and ask for alcohol with their meal, answer their questions and so on.

And then, these happily oblivious parents pat themselves on the back for having such independent children, totally unaware of the army of unpaid carers who have helped to bring them up!

Another thought that occurred to me - I'm assuming you're planning a night flight as your poor delicate DH needs to sleep, which he won't on a day flight. Others have said that the DCs will be ok watching films etc, but do you want them to be watching films, listening to their ipods, chatting for hours or do you need them to sleep too to avoid a hellish day the following day? As it seems you are returning over night with the next day being a work day for DH (maddness not to take a day off after a long haul family holiday), would it be a school day for the DCs/a day they need to do something? If they aren't supervised, how likely do you think it is that they'll settle down and sleep on this exciting plane by themselves, or do you think if not mess about, at least stay awake.

Again, I hold the "you and one DC in BC on way out, DH and other DC in BC on way back" solution, or the "tell him to stop being an arse" one, which is cheaper, but doesn't involve you getting to out in BC...

The other problem to my mind (and admittedly I am sensitive to this as it would be very easy for us to repeatedly make ds2 responsible for ds3 - who also have a 3 year age gap) is that if anything goes wrong - whether being stuck on the runway for hours, or oxygen masks deploying or whatever, then you are making your older child responsible for the younger one. I think 13 is a bit young for that really. Two 13 year olds? Hmm maybe (although personally I'd feel a complete plank swilling champagne in bc while half the family were in ec - but each to their own) but it seems unfair to just give that responsibility to a 13 year old. I do of course sometimes make ds2 responsible for ds3 (even, more rarely he is responsible for ds1) but I don't think I'd want to leave for a number of hours on a flight, when actually there are all sorts of things that can go wrong and you can't always just step in. Yes you could probably step in if the younger child was sick everywhere, but not if there was scary turbulence or an emergency landing.

Whilst I think that the kids sat at the back with the nanny is a bit twatish and precious at least there is an adult to be responsible for the ten year old, rather than another child.

Wish there was a like button for velma's post.

Dh and I have actually had this conversation! As a teenager he flew economy while his parents flew club, so it is what he is used to. He has mentioned a few times that while we're paying club now that when they're older we would do the same. I said no. It's a personal choice and for us we are 10 years away from this scenario but I would want to be able to see my children in an emergency. My firm advice would be to not do it. Having said that some of the responses you have had OP are dripping in venom, so glad you name changed.

We flew like this when I was a child too (only when work paid for my dad to fly business otherwise we were all in economy). Parents in business, us 3 kids in economy. We absolutely loved it. No messing around with what we wanted to watch and the 3 of us sat together. It's not like you are miles away fgs!

Also my mum liked to sit in smoking (those were the days - smoking on planes!) so for us it was a blessed relief and I hated it when we all had to sit together!

Feeling Happy Now .....very interesting debate but most of the pilots and cabin crew I know (and I know a lot!) have their kids down the back and they are in the pointy end. This only changes when the kids are 15 and staff travel rules let the kids up the front.
Saying that, staff kids have aeroplane etiquette instilled from birth and are the model passengers. It happens more than you think with frequent fliers.

I'm sure its very common, but i suspect there's a family mentality involved with crew and thier kids if its the done thing. Travelling unassisted is fine too - the airline know its happening and are happy to keep an eye on the children. I did this myself as a child......just sticking the kids in the back seems a bit 'can't be arsed, someone else will look after them' , even though op is suggesting it's as budget and dh issue, i'm not sure other passengers would see it that way.

jesus, just come back to this and folk have been quite nasty about this totally questioning the OP's parenting and character. Get a grip folk she was just asking, you've no idea what kind of parent she is just by this.

My kids are younger so need me beside them and I'd worry about anything going wrong. Might be different when they are a bit older and don't need much supervision but I'd still worry about if something happened and we weren't together.

Velma's post reminded me of the article about different parenting styles:
When American families visited our home, the parents usually spent much of the visit refereeing their kids' spats, helping their toddlers do laps around the kitchen island, or getting down on the floor to build Lego villages. When French friends visited, by contrast, the grownups had coffee and the children played happily by themselves.

Of course the first group of parents would think the second is lazy and selfish. The second thinks the first are helicoptering, cotton-wooling and generally not doing their children any favours. I don't think we have enough data to decide which style is better yet.

But in any case I can't help to wonder about most of the arguments here why the DC should not sit separately. Because they might need to go to toilet or get a drink? I'm pretty sure most 10-year olds, not to mention 13-year olds can manage that independently, no?

Ofcourse YABU - but you knew that anyway!

As someone upthread said 'what a way to start a family holiday'

I have no problem with you riding up front while me and my family are stuck in economy with your kids, none at all. So long as they sit like mice and don't kick my god damn seat.

I only problem you'd have is if theres an emergency and you can't get back to the kids.

If you are seriously entertaining this I'd swap seats for take off and landing so each kid isnt on its own.

Someone asked earlier how does cabin crew feel about this kind of situation, so I asked a friend of mine who works for British Airways. He says that this happens all the time, kids usually love it and cabin crew always tries to spoil them, they don't have any problems with this option.

Hazel,
When American families visited our home, the parents usually spent much of the visit refereeing their kids' spats, helping their toddlers do laps around the kitchen island, or getting down on the floor to build Lego villages. When French friends visited, by contrast, the grownups had coffee and the children played happily by themselves.

I don't think we have enough data to decide which style is better yet.

I sort of think you do have.
One set spends the time refereeing spats, while with the other the kids play happily.

My 7 year old is even doing his homework by himself. :o

"What about if we give the kids a choice? Long haul exciting destination. But at the back of the plane. OR Short haul possibly a bit less exciting, but still a good holiday. And we all travel together"

"That's not a choice, it's a fucking ultimatum!"

This is BY FAR the funniest thing I have read on this thread.

OP - you know your kids and if this is reasonable or not (whether they'd 'bother' the people sitting next to them or not). I think the 10 yo is possibly a little bit too young to not chat away to the person sitting next to them, to ask them how long before they get there, what their favourite colour is, if they have a dog.... now, I wouldn't mind that and would far prefer it over a lot of other possibities but not everyone will feel the same.

IF there is a major issue, one of you would be able to swap with one of the children so you are each sitting with a child. The airline crew would not stop you doing that, even if general wandering about was not allowed.

I have no problem at all with the concept that the children are not getting the same 'luxury' as the adults - I was brought up in the 70's, where this was the norm & was perfectly fine & acceptable. I still think that principal is one that works well and would stop so many kids growing up with such an entitled attitude to life. I knew the 'pecking order' and didn't feel in anyway less valued as a person because of it, I knew that when I was the adult it would be my turn and it's hardly like we were starved or deprived

Some of the attitudes on this thread make me despair - it's no wonder some kids struggle to respect their parents/teachers/other people, they are brought up with such a sense of entitlement without limit.

The "grumpy adult who feels resentful that he isn't in business class" needs to grow up TBH.

MaryZ - me too. There are comments on this thread that really make me despair. I would quote them, but that makes me feel a bit mean and it's not fair to single people out - but really, you do have to shake your head.