to be rather hurt by the anti-ginger sentiment in my office

[SarfEasticated]

One of our departmental secretaries has just found out she is having a boy, and in the process of her coming round to tell everyone said that her partner had said 'if he's a ginger he's going back in'. Then quite a few of my colleagues who I have always liked, waded in with comments of agreement and general revulsion at the very idea of a red-headed child.
Made me feel awful as I do have red-hair, and any of my future children could have it too. So basically they all think I and other red-headed people are freaks that should never have been born. :(

It's not socially acceptable to be racist or sexist so I have no idea why gingerist is seen to be okay.

"red" is an all encompasing term from strawberry blonde, through to auburn. It also includes ginger - which is the one shade of all the reds that gets an awful lot of venom. Factor in milky skin and freckles and you have a complete recipe for a life time of teasing.

This is because the media dictates that orange tanned is a preferred shade; freckles are airbrushed away.

I always think Lily Cole has the most fantastic hair and skin - similar to Patsy Palmer, however she reinforced the sterotype of a 'ginger' by acting the character of someone loud, thick, ill educated. Which in its self is wrong sweeping statement coming most red heads I know are usually very intelligent people.

I don't see why Fabby's getting a slating for being honest.

These threads are normally a mix of people saying they do or don't like ginger hair and people going way OTT with their hatred or adoration of it.

Would you slate someone's honesty if they said ginger hair was the most amazing colour in the world?

There are lots of Irish redheads, yet I don't remember anywhere near the same level of obvious prejudice when I was growing up there in the 1970s and 80s as you encounter currently in the UK. I've only ecountered the disgusted phrase 'a ginger' since living here, too. It's the apparent acceptability of it as a prejudice, as well as the casual assumption that everyone agrees with it, and that it can be voiced in any company, that gobsmacks me. Repulsive, dim-witted stuff.

I call my (Irish) mother on it any time she says anything of the kind - she has some ingrained idea that very red hair is 'tinkerish' (associated with travellers), along with breast-feeding (implies you're too poor and feckless to buy formula, and hasn't yet taken off in Ireland to anywhere near the same extent as in the UK), and carrying your baby rather than using a Respectable Pram. I keep pointing out that baby slings and breast-feeding are practically middle-class articles of faith, and that red hair is objectively striking and beautiful...

Fabby's getting a slating for making a crass,insensitive remark. And her posting history is also getting peoples backs up,certainly mine,because the majority of her posts seem to be incredibly offensive.

She provided some context for that remark later,which did make it somewhat understandable,though it isn't a very sensitive way to put it. But at least she did explain.

Karen Gillan is another one that comes to mind, she is gorgeous.

There is errr, a bit of red hair in our family.

My neice 6, who lives in the US, has beautiful, beautiful red hair.

She (and my DB and SIL) are often stopped in the street while she is admired.

Is it different over there?

Yes but my point is, why is ok for some people to positively gush and make statements that ginger hair is beautiful/amazing/striking...when it's all a matter of taste and opinion anyway.

But it's not ok for someone to say they feared having a ginger baby?

It's all just personal taste really.

She didn't just say that she feared having a ginger baby,though that's bad enough without the context she later provided,she said it was her biggest fear.
I know we all make use of hyperbole from time to time,but to say that it's one's worst fear when we have members who have lost babies,and who have had babies born with severe disabilities is rather insensitive.

Ahh fair enough LaFille when you put it like that.

It's all about PC-ness really. We darent say we dislike something for fear of offending.

I was thinking this morning, having watched a few American sitcoms (which I happen to find funny and I make no apologies!!!!)

Two and a Half Men - blatently thickist, fatsit, sexist etc etc
Big Bang Theory - Jaw droppingly racist
Scrubs - borderline racism and sexist

So back to my point - no one rational in the Uk would dare say half the things that the Americans seem to get away with - we'd be completely sued to buggery! So why it's broadcastable, I'm not entirely sure. However, there are often the odd one liners in there that you just know everyone thinks but darent say.

If people were actually honest, rather than spuoting PC opinions they think should be spouted, then a few more hands would go up with the "I really dreaded having a ginger throwback".

I wouldn't say she's utterly offensive but I have learned not to take Fabby's posts too literally LaFille.

Having said that I have defended her before and she's gone right ahead and said something utterly shocking

Tim Minchins hair is also gorgeous, a little bit on the auburn side...(nothing to do with the topic really just have a bit of a crush on him)

But why is it pc to say you like red hair?
I love it, but it's still just a hair colour, why would you hate it or comment about it at all?
I colour my hair (blond highlights) otherwise I'm just sort of mousey, but no one ever bullied me about it.

Y not comment?

As the mother of a stunning DD with loads of red hair, I have to say that after a while you do get pissed off with the rude comments, 'oh don't worry it will probably change colour when she's older' or 'it's not quite as carrotty in the sunlight' (thanks, MiL). She's only 1 but I hope it does stay the colour it is because it's utterly gorgeous and suits her perfectly. If only stupid people could keep their opinions to themselves.

I think the people who are saying that liking or not liking red hair is 'just personal taste' are overlooking the sheer extent of the anti-red-hair prejudice and bullying. It's a larger social fact.

Obviously liking or disliking red hair is a personal preference, but it is odd that so many people seem to feel strongly enough about red hair that they feel they need to voice their dislike, sometimes quite offensively. You don't hear people going around saying "oh, I hate blonde hair" or "my biggest fear is that my baby will be a brunette".

Also, saying you like something is unlikely to offend. Saying you dislike something may offend, so people really must feel strongly about red hair to be happy to cause offence in order to express their feelings. Why?

At the risk of being accused of gushing, I love red hair. All the men in my family for the last 3 generations have had beautiful dark red hair. Neither DS has it unfortunately. And none of the women have ever had it for some reason - I am the only one with any red at all and the sunlight has to be pretty bright for anyone to notice that my hair isn't actually brown. I would have loved to have had the proper family red.

what they ^^ said

liking something very rarely offends.

If people were actually honest, rather than spuoting PC opinions they think should be spouted, then a few more hands would go up with the "I really dreaded having a ginger throwback".

Seriously?

That was the point I was trying to make kungfu, you put it better.

dd has gorgeous red gold hair, and we are often stopped in public as people exclaim over it. but we are in the states and it is just as well since dh and ds have red hair too, though they have a subtle shade that often seems light brown.
Op i would have been furious too. ignorant and obnoxious!

Yes well bullying is wrong no matter what the 'reason'

But I think Lying got it right upthread when she said...

I don't understand why people make fun of it but I also don't understand the people who keep trying to convince others, and maybe themselves, that it's 'sunsets' and the best thing in the world. That doesn't help children who are being picked on; they sound daft when they respond back with the platitudes that well-meaning adults tell them. All it does is step the retorts up a notch

Really it's just a hair colour and I think it's best to tell kids this, rather than gushing and going OTT.

Fabby I'm sorry to tell you that I've reported your initial post as offensive. I've no idea whether Mumsnet will do anything about it. As I said in the report - if you replace the word 'ginger' with 'black' or 'deaf' for example you will see just how unacceptable it is to spout such discriminatory claptrap.

As the parent of a couple of beautiful red-heads, the daughter of one very handsome red-head, and the daughter-in-law of another I find your outdated and ignorant view offensive in the extreme. I'm sorry that your sister was bullied for her beautiful hair colour, but it's people with a view like yours that promote and propagate the continuation of that bullying. Shame on you.

And shame on your work colleagues OP - if it should happen again it might worth pointing out how inappropriate that kind of comment is in a tolerant(or indeed any) society.

anyone insulting red hair most likely looks like a drab mud hen obv envious

To add to my disgruntlement about the lack of red hair in my offspring, DP was adamant it couldn't happen as no-one in his family was a red-head and no-one knew of any red-headed ancestors.

His nephew is red-haired so clearly they do have the gene but we didn't get it. Grr!