to boycott shops that use forced unpaid labour (aka slavery)?

[ChickenLickn]

These stores:

Boots,
Tesco,
Asda,
Primark,
Argos,
TK Maxx,
Poundland,
Arcadia group of stores run by billionaire Sir Philip Green, which includes Top Shop and Burton,

are all using 'workfare' schemes, forcing jobseekers to work 30 hrs/week unpaid for 6 months in profit making companies or face losing their jobseekers benefits. Mre details here.

Please avoid shopping in these shops as much as possible, this is basically slavery and is illegal under human rights law (and currently being challenged in the courts).

The good news is that Waterstones and Sainsburys have recently pulled out of the scheme.

I am not missing the point, I am saying it is not slavery, and it is somewhat insulting to those in slave conditions to suggest it is.

You are missing the point by a country mile and talking country pancakes.

You are insulting those working in slave conditions in this country. You believe slavery could not occur in this country, where fairness and democracy should rule the land?

IT IS OCCURING HERE.

To be honest i can see some good and bad points for this scheme.

I do think it could be good for the long term unemployed you have lost confidence in themselves and this provides them with an opportunity to get back out there and experience a working environment and get back into a work routine. I know that after a year on mat leave i am anxious about fitting into a working environment.

However, i do have concerns that some companies could use it for a soure of cheap labour with no intentions of providing these people with jobs ie just use a continual rotation to fill vacancies.

Therefore if done properly could be really good but i suspects that unless monitored for unscrupulous practice it could be just another crap government scheme.

I agree that work experience has its place. For recent school leavers or students with little experience it can be very valuable, for a short period of time.

So for 2 to 4 weeks, ideally part time, where the individual has chosen the position because they can see it will give them beneficial experience - that is fine and good.

But when it is mandatory i.e. forced labour, no beneficial experience, full time, unpaid and replacing decent paid jobs in a profitable company, it is completely unacceptable and an insult to all of us.

Frankly I think it's rather insulting to those who have experienced real slavery for this to be even compared.

The person has a choice. Do Workfare and continue receiving benefits. Or don't and don't get them. Is it a nice choice? No. Do we always get good choices? No.

Other things being equal I'd rather stay in bed on Monday. But since I have bills to pay I have to go to work. My choices are: Go to work and get paid. Don't go to work and don't get paid. I fail to see the difference.

And as for the low wage argument, I think you have to add up the sum total of benefits paid rather than just the JSA component. After all, tax credits, housing benefits, council tax benefit, they all get paid by the taxpayer.

As for the "Well what do they learn from a week stacking shelves at Tesco" mentality. My answer to that is that they learn more than if they were left sitting at home.

Is the system perfect? Nope. But we cannot continue with the mentality that benefits are a right which come with absolutely no strings attached.

yes slavery IS happening in this country, in brothels where girls are threatened with violence and loosing their passports forever, in farms where passports are taken away and the staff accomodation is ten to a caravan. Not in the stock room of tescos, that is NOT the same!

It quite obviously is slavery and anyone who is denying this has no idea about the real world (most of them from what they say about themselves on here have had extremely fortunate and easy lives). Slaves in other countries get fed and get housed 'in exchange for' their labour, but not paid and no hope for the future and no employment conditions. Slaves under this scheme get just food and housing paid for (that's all JSA covers), and do not get paid or get hope for future employment or a contract. There is exactly no difference there, and the countries in which slavery has worse conditions than the UK also have worse conditions for normal paid workers (i.e. people in Indonesia may normally live in a hut, so do slaves in Indonesia; people in the UK normally live in a house with heating, so do slaves in the UK because otherwise they would die due to climate differences), so comparison should be on that basis.

The only way you could believe this was not slavery was if you were one of the uneducated idiots who think JSA is not a subsistence income and believe the nonsense about people on JSA being able to afford huge TVs etc. In fact the only people on JSA who have things like that have them because they have been working in the recent past.

Would be a bit of a pisser to have to work alongside those making the same sacrifices as you for having a job knowing they got paid for their efforts whereas you did the same work for not much pay at all. Also, what about child care? Would free workers be expected to stump up for their own child care whilst not being paid?

Haven't read whole thread, sorry if repeating.

bringme sunshine if you havent read the whole thing just go back and read the posts by Huntycat. She explains it very well.

bringmesunshine childcare would be expected to be paid from their JSA so £67 odd a week to live on, you'd have to pay childcare out of that. You'd not get any more.

Seriously.... one of those retailers, I'm not saying which, is using workfare in preference to paid workers previouslly contracted to work full time, these people have been forced onto zero hours contracts to enable this and those that refuse have been 'let go' in one way or another.

This is hurting jobs available to the employment market and it's hurting those already employed by these companies. Whilst these retailers are making a mint.

There is nothing shameful in retail work. I've done it several times. That's really not the point here.

If workfare was to be at all fit for purpose it needs to be as such that it's not enabling big business to make vast profits at the expense of creating paid work for those who are unemployed. It also needs to take into account reasonable childcare issues and cost.

6 months is a bloody long time to be doing a work placement. Can i ask though what happens if someone on one of these schemes snaps.
Everyone has their tipping point.

YES, Workfare participants WILL be expected to pay for their childcare OUT of their JSA. As of April 2013 that is. And Childcare WILL be needed - if you start at 9am and work to 5pm - you will need both before school AND after school care.

And yes, it IS the thought that the person next to you is doing the same job for much much more than you are.

And NiceGuy, I KNOW we won't ever agree on this - but when you take a NMW job, you ONLY lose the JSA part of your income. You don't lose the CTC, you don't lose the Housing Benefit, you don't lose the Council Tax Benefit. AND you gain WTC, WTC childcare element AND your wages.

So you ARE working for just the part of your income that you would lose if you took NMW work - the JSA of £67.50 a week.

YOU go and find some JSA claimants and ask them how they feel about Workfare, and what portion of their income they would be working for.

IF A JOB IS THERE FOR A WORKFARE PARTICIPANT, THEN IT IS THERE FOR AN EMPLOYEE PAID NMW WITH FULL EMPLOYMENT RIGHTS.

Give the unemployed these jobs AS a proper job. EMPLOY them. Pay them NMW.

I am going to put in another FoI request. Asking about staff turnover - i.e. how many PAID staff have left, and how many of those have been replaced by new PAID staff, and how many by Workfare participants. I feel that would make interesting reading...

Wow. What a shoddy deal. Go huntycat! I am all for working for your benefits in principle, but profiteering off claimants and expecting them to bank roll big businesses is

This is not slavery. People are free to choose not to do it if they want to. They do it because they need money from somewhere. Why should they get money for nothing?

The government are putting money into organising this scheme - our taxpayers money, going to fund Tesco's for free labour. It's one step too far.

IUseTooMuchKitchenRoll, as pointed out earlier, jsa is not money for nothing. each person receiving it has paid for it already out of their taxes. for goodness sake, read the thread. if it is not slavery, it is coercion, God forbid that you ever find yourself grovelling to the bastards in the jobcentre for the money you have already paid in tax and being told that you have to work 40 hours for £67.50.

How long are these people unemployed before this scheme is suggested?I asked further up thread but wasn't answered.

spenditwisely not only that but then the government PAYS these corporations to take Workfare claimants.... so they get free labour and then paid by the taxpayer for this free work

13 weeks, or 26 weeks, as far as I can make out from the Policy Briefing notes they haven't decided between the two yet. I THINK what I can make out is that if you are a 'skilled' worker, you will get 13 weeks to look for skilled work, then 13 weeks to look for ANY work, before you are sent on Workfare. What they mean by skilled is a Graduate, Banker, Lawyer, Doctor, Nurse, teacher, manager, they actually give fairly specific examples.

If you are an 'unskilled' worker to begin with (i.e. NMW worker), then it looks like you will only have 13 weeks in TOTAL before they put you on Workfare.

Bit divisive, eh? Someone who has HAD more life opportunities than you gets twice as long before being sent on Workfare?

Niceguy: "As for the "Well what do they learn from a week stacking shelves at Tesco" mentality. My answer to that is that they learn more than if they were left sitting at home"

I was without a job for six months when my DD was three, having previously been employed for a decade. Thanks to the internet I learnt a hell of a lot more in that time (despite having to care for her) than in ten years on the front-line and having to attend useless courses. It was professionally invaluable. I was not claiming unemployment benefits at the time, as DH was working, but we did have access to certain state benefits which allowed me to do this.

Who are "they"? You? Me? Or only the undeserving poor?

From reading the last few comments, in particular huntycat it sounds like the government has taken something which could be really good for the confidence and motivation of the long term unemployed to return to work and turned it into cheap labour for big companies.

What a wasted opportunity.

That's capitalism I suppose. At the clear expense of the taxpayer who may blindly condone it too. Very clever.

How long are these people unemployed before this scheme is suggested?I asked further up thread but wasn't answered

These people? Do you mean the Police Officers who have been made redundant? Soldiers who are losing their jobs? Skilled workers with years of experience behind them?

JSA is not free money - we all pay our NI - we all have worked and paid in to the pot which when in times of hardship is paid out to those in need.

I don't mind Job seekers doing work experience - but if they are working full time - pay them a full time wage and come off JSA for 6 months. If a Chemistry Grad is being given work experience then surely Glaxo's are more suitable then Tescos?