to worry about my daughter

[lismarlilmia]

I have just a spent a really heart-breaking few hours listening to my 9year old daughter telling me that she believes she is a very unpopular girl at school! She has been so upset over once again being excluded from a party! Now I don't think anyone should have to invite the whole class regardless of who their child likes or does not, but I am beginning to think there may be a problem as my daughter never gets invited to any parties apart from the usual three that she has consistently been invited to because these particular girls invite everyone. I have been told year after year by every single teacher and Head teacher that my daughter is a very polite and kind girl and that she is very popular which makes it more strange that she is consistently left out. She is always asked to look after new girls when they have joined her class because the teacher knows she will look after them and takes the responsibility really seriously,however, there is a group of girls in her class that seem to rule the roost and invariably they manage to take these potential new friends off and my daughter is left to wonder what she did wrong! She has managed to keep one friend, but, I have found out her mother is trying to encourage her to have other friends which I applaud but not to the detriment of mine! despite me encouraging my daughter to invite different girls to her party to widen her friendship circle they all accept our generousity ie Build a bear party etc, but them completely exclude her from their own parties! I just don't know what the problem is? It almost seems that to get on in my daughters class as a girl you have to be as loud and unpleasant as you can and then everyone will be your friend! My daughter is constantly asking politely to play and told NO! always the last to be picked in any team game ie sports etc etc. Even on the latest school trip she had a so called friend that said she would sit with her on the coach for a two and half hour journey, then proceeded to change her mind and sit with someone else, left my daughter to make her way down the whole isle of the coach asking and then pleading if she could sit down with every single child saying "sorry, I'm sitting with so and so" . In the end she found a spare seat next to a teacher and sat in silence heartbroken and dejected. I really do not know what to say to her to help, I have tried to convince her that she is not the problem but when she says "well why?" I just don't know what to say! I have spoken to her class teacher and he is totally unaware of any problems and maintains that she is a happy girl, but I know she would never tell him how she feels because she believes the other girls will get away with it like they have always done since Reception! Should I be worried?

Some people are popular, some aren't. Some people are gregarious, some aren't. Some people have a gravitas towards others, some don't.

It is a hard lesson in life, but we arent all popular all of the time. Does your daughter not have one special friend? I would find that odd if there weren't one like minded soul in her class. Does she do out of school activites where she has a common interest?

School can be crippling if you aren;t one of the 'in set'. On the other hand, who wants to be a clone?

I really dont know what to suggest; you can't "make" someone be her special friend. Usually the mix at secondary school is more eclectic - but that is no help at the moment.

There's more to life than being with the 'in crowd'. At least she's being invited to some of them. I think you need to get her involved with some activities outside school instead of looking to her class for friends. Also, don't encourage her to think she's somehow lacking because she's not being included. Reliance upon other people, at any age, brings no rewards.

My ds1 wasn't invited to any parties at all even though I had one for him every year and the invited classmates used to attend. I just made sure we did other stuff with him. He's gone to another secondary school now and left them behind and made some much nicer friends - ones who aren't full of themselves

Your poor daughter, that must be really hard for her and hard for you too. I think I would speak to the teacher again and make him pay attention, there might not be anything he can do but he should at least ensure she is ok. Also agree with troisgarcons, how about out of school activities like Brownies for example? It is a really great place to meet friends from other schools and none of the preconceived notions which seem to have built up in your daughters class.

My dd's friends were like this - quite happy to accept invitations to sleepovers, parties and days out, but never reciprocated and invited different friends to do stuff at their house.
Now she's moved to secondary school she's found girls who are more like her - kind, loyal and considerate. She's not into Twilight, make up and boys like her old friends, she's found friends who like animals, cartoons and drawing like she does and it's done her the power of good.
If she has interests outside school enrol her in classes - swimming, gym, dance, drama, chess - any common interest will give her a bond to other children.

wow your poor daughter! Any situation that affects our emotions is a tough lesson/situation to be in. You cannot make the other girls invite your daughter but nevertheless if she feels she is not connecting with the other girls then surely something can be done. If you daughters self esteem is being affected then school need to listen and support somehow. It can be so difficult if there is a group of girls that are very close but if your daughter can see someone she would love to connect with could you organise to invite her round so they can get to know each other away from all the other girls. You may find there are other girls in the class who too feel a bit intimidated by the overpowering girls. I wish you and daughter the best of luck x

I've had similar with my DD (who's 11 now), and at first the teachers said it was because she was in a class with 'strong characters', but as she's approaching the end of primary I'm beginning to wonder.

I thought it was maybe because my DD was a bit too polite and nice and let the others walk over her. I notice your DD asks if she can play as well, and I'm sure that just sets them up to be rejected it lets the others know they've got some power over them and they're not bothered about exploiting it to its full extent.

It's awful to watch isn't it? And I'm not sure what to do for the best either, I've just tried to give her the tools to backchat them in a lighthearted but sarky way, so if they say she's fat/ugly (which she blumming well isn't ) she can show them up for being the type of person to say something so horrible.

It does work to an extent, but the most important thing I've found is to foster a confidence in herself so she can let what the other girls are like wash over her.

And keep telling her that they're not at school for long in the scheme of things.

I think these girls must have pretty horrid mothers from whom they have learnt their tricks. My children always included the quirky non alpha children and played with them too. Actually DS did, DD is quirky and non alpha but somehow stumbled through primary because there were so many lovely families before having a bit of a meltdown at 11/12 but we have got over that now.

I'm encouraged to see posters saying that going up to secondary can make a difference, I know it's not a hard and fast rule, but I was hoping it might spell an end to some of the problems

I agree with the idea of getting outside interests. It really helped my having some slightly older friends outside school. I magically became cool when the outside friends and the people from school got invited to a birthday party (clever mother I have). My older, outside friends who thought the schoolgirls were a little sad and young did wonders for my cred . Does your DD have any hobbies/interests she could follow outside school?

Thanks all for the lovely comments! Daughter takes part in lots of out of school activities and has made some lovely friendships, problem definately seems to be in the class she is in only. I don't expect her to be popular with everyone and have told her from a young age that what is important is not how many friends you have but how meaningful those friendships are. She is a really forgiving girl and I feel that wonderful quality has gone against her with some of the girls. She had her cardigan thrown down the toilet last year because a really unpleasant girl felt angry with her! I still have not been told why! All I know that the girl in question is also left out also and has made my daughters life a living hell, she will not allow my daughter to play with anyone! and if my daughter politely tells her that she would like to play with other people too, this so called friend runs off crying and tells the playground attendant who promptly tells my daughter not to be unkind and leave said girl out! How can my daughter make friends with other girls if she has to deal with this all the time, I wonder if this situation is what is putting other girls off involving my daughter or if there is more to it. I can only hope that the next year flies by and soon enough my daughter will be off the secondary school where hopefully she will be able to make new friendships.

Honestly, outside interests make all the difference. Widening her social circle will mean that she'll be able to put these people to one side and just not bother with them. Is she into sports? Or you could try a junior drama club or dancing or learning some martial arts. There's loads on offer. I've never encouraged mine to become particularly involved with classmates. If they make friends, then fine, but don't depend upon them. She needs to up her self confidence and stuff like sport or acting will do that, as well as bringing her into contact with like minded kids.

My DD also had a similar problem of one girl who wanted to play with her exclusively and when DD said she wanted to play with other children she just turned on her. She's still being horrible to her now a couple of years on

I've just asked DD she said it helped when she told a teacher she really liked what was going on and for them not to let on they knew, but they kept an eye on the situation and gave her somewhere to go to when it was getting a bit much.

She found this book Bigmouths and So-called Friends was really good as well (recommended by a lovely MNer - can't remember who, but thank you

AgentZigzag thank you, I will check that out

Oh bless, I had this through my whole school life, secondary School was actually worse, but because I realised that it wasn't going to change, however hard I tried to fit in, I stopped bothering and just pleased myself.
I found 2 girls who where quite and studious but but had a sence of humour, so I knocked about with them for 3 years, they wheren't interested in Class politics as both came from very strict families who didn't allow them to go out without older brothers in tow.
We all ended up at collage together on the same course, and 1 of them her Gran relaxed a bit and allowed her out on a Sat after Church, so we could go shopping together. we all lost contact in about their 2nd year of Uni, but they have a place in my heart still.
BUT! because I had just given up on "fitting in" at School at college, suddenly I was Miss popular, I was known for my quirky humour and don't give a crap attitute to students who thought they where something special, but still polite to people.
I became Clubs and Soc officer at 16 after I had been asked by the president and Socal sec to stand, and this was at a join SU both a UNi and College Shares the SU.
I am much more confident than other people because I carry with me, what is the worst that can happen? they can ignore me? BIG DEAL! I don't get caught up in petty politics becasue I was able to observe it from the outside at school and realise that actually it was worse to be in a clique due to the hurt they could inflict on each other over really stupid reasons, and feel they where pathetic when they made up.
I really geniuning like most people, can empathise (I hope), I don't care if you are a cleaner or CEO if you invite me to the Pub I will come, if I like you which I probably will, unless you are an arse to others...Oh! and no the pub is not the deciding factor
What my Mum and Dad did for me, like you I bet they where upset, they both talked to the School, I am sure, dispite my pleas not too, I would for my Dts.
they let me know how proud of me they where, they encouraged me to me, if they don't like you when you don't fit in, don't bother it is easier in the long run, encouraged outside activities, spoke to the 2 friends I did have mothers to see if they could relax their rules on their daughters, so they could come to my house or out, this unfortuanlty wasn't an option, but a comprimise was made, 1 friend her adult sister was a chaperone in her house (so I couldn't be alone with any of her brothers) and the other her Gran stayed in the room, we still had fun and larked about.

Your Daughter sound lovely, as you do, big hug's to you both, but as the saying goes what don't kill you...takes a lot to upset me now.

Sorry if I've missed a bit, speed-reading whole thread. I used to be your dd, it was horrid, but changing to a new school was great, I finally made friends. Is that an option? The school trip bus story brought the memories flooding back, poor poor honey.

Your poor DD, OP. I feel very sad for her. Girls, especially, can be horrible and seem to take such pleasure in it. I think they wll be shaken out of their reverie when they get to secondary school, being small fish in a big pond instead of being the big fish as they are now.

Would it be possible for your DD to speak to a trusted teacher as AgentZigZag's did? Just that somebody else knows and can see might be a very great comfort to your DD.

I wish your daughter well, OP, it won't be like this all the time - it will get better - and she'll remain the lovely person she currently is. :)

I know a few children like your poor DD. Things seen to come to a head in about yr 4. I think that is the age where some children have just discovered the power they have to manipulate others and they enjoy wielding this power about and seeing its effects. I think the key thing for her to learn is to show indifference. If there is no reaction then there is no point singling her out and she doesn't appear "needy" which isn't attractive to other kids. Easy to say in theory but very difficult to implement for a 9 year old. Could you role play some situations and help her become confident in her "aloneness"? Others will probably gravitate more towards her if she doesn't appear quite so desperate.

I know it has been a solution for two particular children when their parents have insisted their child move class to give them a new beginning - possible if the school is big enough. Obviously the pros and cons of this have to be evaluated but it could be an option to consider. Removing her from the so called friend would help. At the very least I second explaining the situation with the so called friend to school.
Friendships outside of school should also be fostered to help build her confidence and that will help her believe it "is not her" but just that particular bunch of people. Could you invite others not from school to tea?

Good luck. I feel for you.