to be concerned about this nursery?

[questionsabout]

Posted in nurseries, but reposting here as I desperately need some quick replies. I am getting quite worried.

I've namechanged as some of this may make me quite identifiable.

I have had growing concerns about my dc's nursery lately. Firstly I found the quality of the food poor (vegetable fingers and baked beans regularly served, little non-dairy protein). Spoke to manager and didn't receive a satisfactory reply/action.

They recently fed my child a food which clearly caused a reaction, and which I had specifically told them not to give. I spoke to the manager and heard nothing. When I brought it up again, I was told to speak to the room leader, who was rather aggressive/defensive about the issue, and did not address my concerns in the slightest.

Recently I came to pick up dc early and found that there were 7 children (under 2) and only one staff member in the room. I had also never met this staff member before (she was not one of the staff in the room). I was concerned that the ratio of 3:1 was not being adhered to, and that the children did not have a familiar staff member in the room. Frequently at collection I notice that the ratios are quite off, usually at least one staff member down. Also there never seems to be any adult led activity, the children are usually just running around with minimal toys out.

Finally my child has been getting increasingly unhappy lately and distraught at drop off. I want to withdraw her from nursery but the provision where I live is particularly poor (either very expensive, rubbish, or both). Would I be right to withdraw my child from this nursery? I would need to travel quite a lot to find a decent one, but I'm thinking that needs to be done now?

YANBU. You know this. Too tired to write much but trust your instincts.

yes i would remove my child, and report the nursery, they don't seem to be concerned about your childs wellbeing or you as a parent and paying customer.

The minute the doubts start creeping in, it's time to leave IMO.

Difficult to answer but I'd always say "trust your instinct". If you don't feel happy about it, find somewhere else. (Does it have to be a nursery if they are few and far between? A good childminder might be easier to find and might be another option.). Good luck

Yes remove your child and report the nursery for not adhering to ratios.

If in doubt remove first ask questions later, every time I have ever hesitated in a child related problem I have regretted it, your insincts are rarely wrong IMO

You have valid concerns that have not been addressed and you have clearly seen that they are not providing adequate care.

Take your child out as soon as you possibly can.

I would remove your child, without a doubt! If those are the things you're actually noticing for yourself, it makes you wonder what else is wrong that they're keeping from you.

You should take you dc out of that nursery. My family owns 3 nurseries and I have worked in them. Diet - not great but as long as you are providing healthy food at other time it shouldn't be a problem. Ratio - also not great but maybe explained by other member of staff toileting or nappy changing. Not a lot of toys out - do you collect you child at th end of the nursery day? I would say that 99% of nurseries will have very little toys out at this time as tidy up time will have been done (nursery staff are only paid till nursery closing time) Food reaction - not good at all, all children should have a care plan and any allergies or food intolerances should be displayed on the wall in the kitchen and play room. But you say your child is becoming unhappy at drop off then that would be the most important thing, what with the rest of the thing you say I would say because your child is becoming more distressed, and has not been previously then there is more going on at the nursery than you are seeing. it may well be that the things you mention can not be easily explained and are happening all of the time.

Keepingup changing is done in the room, and the toilet is 'en suite' so I don't think either of those reasons could explain the ratios.

I always try to collect dc at least an hour before the nursery closes. Again so tidying shouldn't be the cause of lack of toys.

Her distress may be health related as well to some extent, I'm not sure, but combined with the doubts I have about nursery I've got to take it seriously.

I would remove.

I have a DS2 with a food intolerance. His nursery is supportive and we work together on it. Yes they once made a slip up and gave him something he shouldn't have (but so have I). They were honest about the error, concerned etc. Not defensive.

The ratio could look wrong if another member of staff is on nappy duty etc

But if you child is unhappy and there's an unhappy vibe then I'd be looking elsewhere.

I wouldn't have a problem with veggie fingers and baked beans once a week. It's not the only meal of the day.

Put your list of complaints in writing to the manager AND owner. If they are not responded to forward them to ofsted and leave.

When you have your child in a great nursery you'll know the difference.

I left mine in a rubbish one too long as I thought I was just looking for problems but they were really there. Scary they've just got another outstanding from ofsted. Just shows how little that means

Leave and report your concerns to Ofsted.

If another nursery isn't possible could you consider a childminder/nanny share?

pancakeflipper I feel the same. I wouldn't have been so concerned about the food incident if they had been honest about what had happened, that way at least steps can be taken to prevent the same events from reoccuring.

hev2010 Nanny share just wouldn't be an option financially. I thought nurseries would be well suited as my dc is very confident and active. I saw one childminder but she just wasn't the right fit for us. I will try looking at others though now.

Have a look at other nurseries especially if you have a kid who likes that sort of environment. Don't just go on Ofsted reports, visit them all. Look for happy kids, happy vibe. You know what to look for now - you know what's important to you and can ask the right questions.

The nursery we use is not perfect and to be avoided if wanting a nursery of academic excellence and if you want your kid coming home in clean clothing. But its full of love and care. The staff and manager are approachable. They are fair. They act on constructive criticism in a positive non-sulky way. And that makes a big difference cos' I think we all have little niggles at times or things you want to ask about.

If your child is unhappy take them out. That in addition to all your other concerns would definitely convince me! We took our daughter out of a nursery which we didn't have massive concerns about but I thought there were often too few staff, staff gossiping in corners instead of doing structured play, and often the kids were just running riot!

Visit all of the other nursery options in your area, especially if you haven't been to them in person yourself but have heard that they are rubbish from other people. One person may not like a nursery which another person loves! A friend looked round our nursery and didn't send her child there as she thought it was tired and dated looking and she didn't like the fact that it only got satisfactory from ofsted and didn't use email or text to communicate with parents. We and our daughter love this nursery for many reasons and wouldn't go anywhere else!

questions as I said they could be explanations but also if, as you say none of them apply then you would be well within your rights to remove her. IME of not only nurseries but schools (3dc 19,12,6 with various levels of sen) I agree with pancake don't just rely on Ofsted reports go and have a look and get a feel for the place, also worth remembering that Ofsted reports can be up 5 years old. As you have said you dc has health issues, please don't be fooled into going with a place that just keep saying things like 'Oh yes we will have no problem meeting her needs' or 'yes we are experienced in that' without asking questions and talking thing over with you and maybe even asking to see any doctor reports you may have. IME the former are likely to only be after you money and to look like they have the numbers of children in there. Somewhere that will be interested in your dc interests will ask questions and most likely won't seem as enthusiastic as they will understand that your dc will need extra support put in place, even if it is just an extra eye kept on her at meal time or changing the menu for her slightly.
I hope you sort everything out, I know how hard it can be to have concerns about you child in someone else's care, especially when they can't tell you when something is wrong.

please report to Ofsted. Our nursery was reported for their inability to stick to ratios, and they were duly spot-checked. They have since upped their game and the staff member numbers have increased. I think the manager just needed a bit of a scare/kick up the bum. In other areas they were fine so I didnt removed my kids, but in your case I would REALLY consider it.

Ratios is a big thing and they should be observed even if toileting or nappy changes are happening. That's why you'd quite often find our nursery manager on her knees playing with babies at pick up time, because if a baby needed changing someone else had to go into the room to keep the ratios up.

So the thing about not knowing the person on duty isn't an issue, but they should only be there to keep the ratios up to 1:3 - which they clearly weren't doing. That and the food allergy thing would be enough to have me looking round for an alternative, the food and no toys at pick up time are non-issues for me.

Take her out. I just moved my DD's nursery, even though she was perfectly happy at the old one, because I was unhappy with the level of communication between staff and parents (zero), the level of stimulation they were getting (zero) and the ability of the staff to control them (limited). We have a longer drive to the new one and it is quite a bit more expensive, but definitely worth it. Now I don't spend all day when she is there feeling guilty and then picking her up early! (Which was a big waste of money anyway, apart from anything else).

I would go with your gut feeling.

Find a new nursery. I took my ds out of a nursery that at first seemed fine but as time progressed it clearly wasn't. Ds got more and more unhappy there. He loved his new nursery and I felt guilty that I'd left him at the old one so long.
I would also report them - you have tried to raise issues with the nursery themselves and they have ignored you. Not good enough.

It is so important to be able to trust the nursery to look after your child properly. Clearly you can't trust this one. The things you have described should not be happening - you are right to trust your instincts.

Report them for both the ratios thing and the food intolerance- what if the allergy was life threatening?

Leave. I had minor doubts like this but carried on as dd seemed happy. Then one day I picked her up early without warning and went upstairs to find 25 yes TWENTY FIVE children in a room with one member of staff, all sucking lollypops and running riot. Staff member was paying no attention at all but sitting there doing paperwork.

I got DD, told manager they'd breached contract and she wouldn't be returning, called ofsted on my mobile from the premises in front of manager and took two weeks emergency leave from work.

I found her a new nursery and discovered she HADN'T been as happy as I thought. She positively thrived, it was as if I had a different girl. Don't leave it as long as I did. If you're not happy deal with it now.

You could put a complaint in to OFSTED as that has to be looked into then. But I would do that when you have already removed your child. Is there any childminders in your area? Or any council run nurseries where the council funds the provision as well as pays the wages. IME experience council run are more likely to stick to ratios, less likely to cut corners as they are run like a school and often have headteachers rather than managers or owners who don't have a childcare background. Also the staffs working hours will be better and the staff will receive proper breaks which will reflect in their care of the children. The room leader should not be defensive or aggressive with parents so that would concern me.