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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to feel extremely angry with my sister

21 replies

Stephb88 · 09/02/2012 13:08

There's an ongoing court battle at the moment. My sister had her children removed from her care when they were babies 6 yrs ago. My mum has raised them. They're now 5 and 6 and happy children.

However, she has now applied to have them back - which in a sense is fine. However, I lived with her for 9 months last year and was horrified at the abuse towards her younger son, who she was able to keep and has living with her. He's now 3. There was so much wrong in that household, in writing it all down it covered 20 A4 pages! Of course this was reported to the authorities but nothing was done about it - they clearly covered up extremely well, despite there also being reports made by someone else who lived there for a while and a neighbour which was frustrating in itself.

But, just a couple of months ago she put this application in to court requesting she has the girls returned. Clearly, this is a concern. But my poor mum is absolutely devestated - not because my sister wants them back but because she's extremely worried about the level of care they'd receive should they be returned.

Anyway, my sister is playing a relatively good game and we have no idea which way it'll turn out. Of course we know what should happen, but whether the SW's dealing with it also see that, who knows.

But I'm so angry and upset with her for what she's putting my mum through. She's telling so many lies - of which everyone in the family know to be lies - she's obviously just trying to win her case. She accused by stepdad of being a paedophile!! I was horrified she could stoop so low. But after investigating there was obviously no concern there but that doesn't take away that worry of being investigated, iyswim. But after one serious allegation comes another and another. My mum is completely racked with worry. She's been crying so much all morning saying she doesn't know how much more she can take and I feel so sorry for her I'm crying too.

My elder brother died unexpectedly in January last year at just 28 yrs old and my mum, cleary has not managed to fully deal with losing a child yet and now my sister puts all of this on her and simply does not care. My mums marriage also broke down following the death of my brother (through the stress and pressure) and she's done incredibly well to keep going and get the rest of her family through those tough times. But, to her it feels like in a space of a year, she's not only lost her son and husband, but her daughter has done all of this and so their relationship has deteriorated and she could potentially lose her 2 grandchildren too - not to mention the worry of her husband being able to also fight for residence of their 12 yr old son who remains at home, although he is adamant he isn't going to. But I think her level of trust is now non existent.

Why does one person have to deal with so much in such a short space of time? I'm angry and upset on her behalf. :(

I just had to have a rant and where better than mumsnet!

OP posts:
minimisschief · 09/02/2012 13:10

get one of those camera bears if they dont believe reports.

blondie80 · 09/02/2012 13:35

It sounds like you and your mum have been through a lot recently. You are probably very good support for each other.

I hope everything works out how you would like it to with the courts and SW.

Stephb88 · 09/02/2012 13:40

lol - that'd be a fab idea. Unfortunately, nobody outside their immediate family live with them now and she's cut off most contact with us all. I was living there temporarily as a house I got fell through, but left in July last year. Maybe whichever neighbour it was that has made reports will decide to record something they see.

It's just all so frustrating - knowing there is still a 3 yr old child in that environment, knowing that they're managing to cover up, despite there clearly being several witnesses to such violent and emotionally abusive - even borderline sexual abuse, knowing also that there's a chance (I personally think it's very doubtful but you never know) that 2 happy little girls may be put back in that environment and the effect this whole thing is having on our family.

OP posts:
blondie80 · 09/02/2012 13:46

Have you contacted the police? If this child is in the danger as you say I would be calling them.

Also contact NSPCC, or have a look at their website, they may contact police or investigate on your behalf.

diddl · 09/02/2012 13:58

Well, I don´t think that your sister should not ask for her children tio be returned just so that your mum can keep them longer.

However, if there are concerns then it needs looking into-for their sake & the 3yr old.

kreecherlivesupstairs · 09/02/2012 14:01

diddl that is not the way I read it at all.
OP, I have no experience in matters like yours. Do you have SW reports about the girls?
Is your sister having her strings pulled by someone? where is the father of the two girls?
Good luck.

Olderyetwilder · 09/02/2012 15:04

We are bringing up our (paternal) grandchildren. They've been with us for 10 years now. Every so often their mother makes a lot of noise about wanting them back. Every time the courts refuse to disrupt them (lots of issues and concerns which I won't go into in case get recognised).

Even without concerns about mother Courts will normally preserve the 'status quo' unless there are compelling reasons to move them. Soon our GCs will be old enough to decide for themselves and if they do decide to move we will support them (and have them back if needed)

I don't think your mum needs to worry too much, but if she qualifies for legal aid then might be worth a chat with a solicitor to help her to be realistic about whether ahe needs to worry(you can usually get a free initil chat even without legal aid)

worldgonecrazy · 09/02/2012 15:14

At age 5 and 6 are they getting to an age where they can vocalise who they want to live with? I'm not sure how it works but I hope that a happy ending can be reached for everyone.

runningwilde · 09/02/2012 15:22

Good God that is awful! Is there really no more that can be done to get this boy away from them? You need to get onto the social workers again and keep on until something is done?! Can youngest in legal and see if anyone can advise you? Please let us know x

ElsieMc · 09/02/2012 16:38

My grandsons also live with me on residence orders for nine years and six years respectively. I agree with what has been said, the boys are happy and settled here, it is not what the mother wants, but what is right for the children and maintaining the status quo is very important. Your mum's home is their home, they have school, friends etc.

My daughter also kept her third child. We were very worried at first and he was on the child at risk register. However, it does seem to have been the making of her to a degree. Very slowly she has started to put him first, with the support of her partner, buying him nice clothes and worrying about good schools etc rather than going out drinking and being incapable of looking after him for days - which she did do for the first year or so.

We are continually taken to court by one of the boys' fathers - 30 times in the past five years. It means you never have a private, peaceful family life and it causes untold stress to the children who sometimes fear they will not see me again. However, we have very sadly had to accept this is part of our lives now. The courts unwillingness to issue barring orders allows this to continue.

I don't think the children will be returned to your sister. I sympathise with you both; my other daughter still does not think the boys' mum is fit to have them back and maybe I am just so pleased to see improvement I am a bit over-positive.

springydaffs · 09/02/2012 19:23

It's quite staggering what some people go through.

I am so very sorry to hear your mum is going through this truly awful time OP. As wilder says, the girls have been with your mum for 6 years; I should have thought they can't be removed that easily? I suppose if there are claims and counter claims, it is not easy for the PTB to reach a conclusion easily or quickly. I hope your sister is being watched - very hard to understand why they haven't acted on the allegations made against her (perhaps they're watching her?). Please keep your eye on your mum that she eats and sleeps well - I assume she is reluctant to go to the GP for support eg anti-d's as this could jeopardise her eligibility to carry on caring for the girls Sad - she needs to keep up her strength for this herculian trial, to pace herself. Does she have any professional support? eg a counsellor. Is your stepdad the husband she broke up with after your brother died? I'm so sorry to hear you lost your brother so suddenly - it is very hard to lose a sibling, and sudden death is a nightmare Sad

Elsie, my ex also subjected me to repeated litigation to wear me down (and drain the coffers). I had heard somewhere - Womens Aid? - that this is a recognised form of abuse now - there's a term for it (which I can't remember!). Have you tried Womens Aid to see if you can get any joy in getting this shit barred from repeatedly taking you to court?

faeriemoo · 09/02/2012 20:56

I'm concerned that you just sat around for 9 months and allowed her (them?) to sexually, emotionally and violently abuse a child?

EggInABap · 09/02/2012 21:49

What faeriemoo said :(

springydaffs · 09/02/2012 22:58

What's she supposed to do, kidnap him? isn't a 20-page report about as much as she can do? Her sister covers her tracks well.

birdynumnums · 09/02/2012 23:34

Faeriemoo and egginabap, she didn't though did she? She reported to social services. Talking sensibly and not reactionary, what else could she do? It sounds horrible. OP, hope you can get 3 year old removed from her care soon.

Stephb88 · 10/02/2012 00:15

Thank you for your responses! Olderyetwilder and ElsieMC I've read your posts out to my mum tonight which appeared to be comforting to her in a sense, thank you!

faeriemoo and EggInABap Please tell me what else I should do. I've racked my brains and met with a brick wall every time I've tried to intervene. I've certainly done nothing as your posts imply. However, short of kidnapping him or murdering his parents, I'm unsure of what else can be done when the authorities never seem to find anything!

The last time I visited their home (around July last year) the little boys father (not the father of the girls) told me he'd given the little boy a good hiding. In his words "I took his nappy off, I've bruised all his bum and down the back of his legs. He will learn to behave himself". This little boy was just 2 then. Obviously I was horrified and told him so and when met with the opposition he tried to back down saying he didn't quite mean it like that. When I left we weren't on 'speaking' terms. However, I reported it as a separate incident that night - through the NCPCC. The NSPCC responded the next morning so I assumed it'd be dealt with quickly. It later came to light that it took SS over a week to visit. They asked them to strip him off and there were no marks, apparently!

Because it's not an every day thing it's harder to prove. Of course if he received these 'beatings' daily, he's bound to be covered in marks, but that's not the case. He is definitely smacked several times a day though but I've not witnessed it personally to the extreme that he told me about that night (SS weren't interested in just smacking no matter how often it was). However one neighbour report apparently (I've heard, not seen for myself) said they saw the child be kicked by his father outside which knocked the child over and some sort of abuse shouted at him so I'm assuming these more extreme incidents happen often - but it's catching them in the act I suppose. The little boy, as I said has recently started nursery and now goes daily. So should these acts occur at any time during the week, Nursery should hopefully notice any marks and raise it.

I honestly don't know what else I can do. Contact has more or less been stopped entirely now so there won't be any new incidents to report as we don't see them occuring.

OP posts:
Stephb88 · 10/02/2012 00:24

I forgot to add that my mum, who has PR for the girls cannot even stop or reduce their contact, despite trying after the girls were telling her what was happening - more so towards the little boy than to them though. She was told by the Court that if she broke the contact order she could lose her liberty.

So, as someone with parental responsibility cannot even do anything, I seem to stand no chance!

We are hoping that more will come to light with this investigation though. The girls have both been interviewed alone with caffcass as part of the court proceedings so who knows - something may come of that! I'm certainly hoping so anyway.

Thank you again for your thoughts and responses.

OP posts:
squeakytoy · 10/02/2012 00:33

In his words "I took his nappy off, I've bruised all his bum and down the back of his legs. He will learn to behave himself".

I am sorry, I must be from some naive world, and apologies if I am.. but I cant imagine someone actually saying that.

Stephb88 · 10/02/2012 00:56

Then you'll imagine how shocked and upset I felt at the time - and even more so at them getting away with it. It's truly heartbreaking.

He (his father) is very much a 'bragger' - openly admits to people in the family that he smacks the child as he doesn't want any child of his being 'naughty'. He's argued with his own parents over it but they will not report their own son. It's backfired on him though because the child is extremely challenging and displays violent behaviour himself which is hardly surprising. Maybe this is also something the childs nursery and other professionals might pick up on.

He lies a lot too so there is a possibility that what he said was not entirely the truth - hence why no marks had been found. Yet because it was over a week later before anyone checked on the child, the bruises may have just healed. I've no idea. I cannot see someone saying it though if it weren't true, no matter how much of a bragger they are and my sister was present at the time and didn't comment giving any indication he was lying.

I just don't know - but it was reported anyway. With hindsight I should probably have asked him to show me the marks or something but you don't think at the time do you. You have your say, fall out over it and leave.

OP posts:
Olderyetwilder · 10/02/2012 08:24

You and your family are doing everything you can. You will get through it, but we did get an order for 2 years preventing more court proceedings, which gave us a break. It's worth trying. Keep supporting your mum, it will be in the past at some point!

runningwilde · 10/02/2012 13:37

Aibu makes me despair sometimes, it is very unfair to attack the op for not doing enough or accuse her of lies

Please keep us updated op x

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