To think DS's pre-school should have some idea of his abilities?

[BumptiousandBustly]

Now before I get accused of stealth boasting etc -

We are worried that DS has aspergers, and are in the process of seeing a pediatrician for this. His pre-school have said that they see no problems with him, everything is fine and one of their big things is how much they observe the children and document everything they can do.

Now what they are seeing in DS is very different from the behavior that we are seeing and frankly makes me feel like a very paranoid mother, and one who is failing DS. However - it also seems that means he is happy there - and settled well - which is obviously a good thing.

THEN they start sending home first reading books for the children who are starting school in September - "the cat sat on the mat" type things, and DS can read way more than that - he is reading words like Fusspot, shopping, cross, twins etc in his reading book.

Now I am NOT showing off about this - its potentially part of his aspergers, but it is the way it is. And I guess its stressing me out about the pre-school. If they are so into - we see everything our children can do, observe them all the time etc - shouldn't they have had SOME clue that he can read - even if not being aware at what level he can read?

Now honestly this is not stealth boasting - it just makes me wonder how much we can rely on the other observations they have made if they haven't noticed this about him?

and that makes me worry - as he is being very anxious at home - and stressed about things - but I was believing them when they said he was happy there - but maybe they are missing that too? (he can be very contained in a strange environment)

OR - is it really unreasonable to expect them to notice something that is outside what your average 3 year old can do - BUT noticing emotions etc is what they normally observe, so I can rely on that?

I hope this makes sense its just really worrying me - especially as he doesn't particularly want to go there at the moment (but then he doesn't want to leave the house anyway) so I REALLY want some reassurance that he is OK there and they are actually seeing him and would notice if he was stressed/unhappy etc.

I'd speak with them about it.

Firstly, children can often demonstrate very different skills in a formal setting to they do at home for lots of reasons - different adults, lots of children to copy, different resources, fresh environment, different approaches...

Wrt the book, how many has he brought home? Are they free choice? Is it because they are working on something specific in pre-school e.g. rhymes, that sort of thing.

Unfortunately, no one here can give you reassurance, at least none that is meaningful in any sense! But the pre-school can - even if it's just reassurance that the pre-school isn't right for him.

Folkgirl - they were very specifically first reader books that we had chosen - adn when I brought they back she said "oh no, you are meant to keep them till he can read them." and when I explained that he could read them - she seemed very put out about teh whole thing!

I was given the basic reading books at that age as that was the routine, and you couldn't be moved up to the next set of reading books until someone had the time to listen to me read them aloud and tick off that i could do that level. Drove my mum nuts as I was too bored to read them, and so couldn't get ticked off. Vicious circle!

Sorry, it sounds like a stealth boast but isn't meant to be. It is a real problem, and I thought it sounded like it might be relevant. I'd talk to them and ask.

they probably don't actualy "do" reaading with them at nursery, that's more of a school thing IMO, so i think it's within reason that they don't know how much he can read tbh.
but no harm in asking to meet with his keyworker and maybe go through what he can/can't do?

ds2 talks non-stop at home. but until very recently he refused to talk to anyone at nursery.
kids don't always behave the same at home and nursery IME

with regard to aspergers it's not uncommon for children to function much better at nursery/school than they do at home. partly they like the routine of it, and the peer pressure helps them easily see what is expected and what is happening next. they also re often aware that they HAVE to behave and they can manage to do that but it can stress them out
home is the place where they can let all that stress out, where they can be themseles and express how they feel.

I think with Aspergers/autism it's fairly common for children to behave differently in different settings. One of mine used to be a nightmare at home and an angel at pre-school. Then completely out of the blue he switched and was fine at home but a nightmare at pre-school.

Also be aware that pre-school will be about free choice. If your ds doesn't choose to read then it may well not be noticed. One of my children was able to read from a young age due to suspected hyperlexia related to autism. I don't think he read a book even once during his time at pre-school. He only showed what he could do when randomly deciding to read out signs on the walls etc.

It could be that he does more at home then at preschool. I know it's not the same but my DD 17 months was walking around at home for a while before she'd do it at nursery. She now has quite a lot of words she (sort of!) says but only says "no" at nursery. I think it is because she is more comfortable at home and therefore more confident, which is pretty normal.

Definitely have a word with them about it, maybe show them some of the books he can read and ask for something closer to that level. Maybe you could send him in with books his familiar with from home and ask them to read them with him, it might encourage him to do more at nursery.

Also, try not to be so worried about people thinking you're boasting, children are all different and do different things at different rates, if someone's going to take offence at your kid's ability to read then they're opinion is pretty worthless IMO.

I really wouldnt worry about this until he is at proper school.
FWIW my ds was also a really early reader (I didn't teach him, just read him a story a day and he did the rest) and his nursery had no idea either, which I found odd at the time.
His reading alone won't nessecarily mean aspergers-are there other symptoms?
I have wondered myself about ds(5)and aspergers, as he does have a lot of traits associated with it, but he might just be quirky!
His school have been great at recognizing his abilities, and weaknesses, so I would leave it to the proffessionals and not stress.

My ds has aspergers, I'm an early years teacher and my ds was reading fluently at pre school too.

I think you should be able to trust the nurserys observations, they should only be writing down exactly what they see so there shouldn't be room for error on that. However, quality of observations can vary greatly. They shouldn't be writing that your ds is happy, because they cannot know exactly how he is feeling. They can only say that he appeared happy, or confident or whatever and them telling you that he is happy is more of a personal observation/opinion.

If your ds is engaged with the activities at nursery, he probably does appear happy, or at least not unhappy. It can be very hard to tell how a child with AS is feeling. I know my ds rarely felt anything except indifference or anger, there wasn't much in between at that age.

If you are worried about his anxieties at home, you need to talk to the nursery and get them to support you in getting your ds assessed. We got our diagnosis from going to the GP and being referred to a pead and a speech and language therapist, even though they did many more assessments at school.

OK, thankyou very much for the many thoughtful responses. I think it stressed me so much because they have completely dismissed my concerns about DS - I was even told "maybe you just need to show him who is boss!" - so to then realize that they didn't have any idea about the reading - it just made me feel they don't have any idea about who he is.

I do take the point about how they can only observe actual behavior and yes I agree - he probably is behaving "perfectly" there - and holding it all in for home.

Also with regard to the reading - its really not that I want them to be teaching him at all - its totally driven by him at home - and we might do it every day for two weeks, and then not touch the books for six weeks - which is fine. (we are only doing it in the first place because he wanted to). ITs just the fact that they hadn't even noticed!

With regard to getting him assesed by their senco adn moving on from there. Given their attitude about the whole thing, I am concentrating on going through the ped/docs etc.

Northernwreck - their are lots of other symptoms including a bedtime routine that is identical word for word every evening, lots of meltdown about things, anxiety about leaving the house - a new behavior in the last few days is hiding under a blanket silently for up to half an hour -

Iusetoomuchkitchenroll - I think its a really good point that they can only write down what they actually see - and I think he is holding a lot of it in.

pseudo341 - I think its because when I first started trying to talk to proffesionals about DS - they reacted like I was saying "my son is brilliant, please validate me!" - one even suggested I contact mensa - so now I am really paranoid about making it clear that I am worried about issues he has - NOT trying to say - oh isn't he brilliant!

Coppertop - that is true about the choice of play- I just know that so much of his focus at home is on reading and/or writing - that I suppose I thought they must have some idea that he could read something.

coppertop/thisisyeterday - I think he really is holding it all together there - and then letting it out at home - when I had to have an operation adn was away for a couple of days he behaved "perfectly!" while I was gone - and it was only when I had been home for a few days that he relaxed and started displaying a lot of his behaviors again - adn I think that too was about anxiety vs feeling safe and secure.

vikinglady - I think in this case they hadn't read anything with them at all - but I can see that this could be a real problem - it must have driven you mad!

imogengladheart - I have been over to SN thankyou, and a lot of it does resonate. I have also had some great support and responses there - i guess I just wanted to post this in AIBU to see if I was being unreaslistic to expect the pre-school to notice something - like being able to read - when its not standard 3 year old behaviour - I just felt like I had to explain about the other stuff - otherwise the thread would ahve been - "My DS can read and pre-school haven't noticed!" and I think I would have got a lot of stick for boasting etc.

Lots of kids can be 'very contained' in a setting (mine is) but it doesnt mean you are 'imagining' the issues which may be there, just that he doesn't feel 'safe enough' there to express them, the way he does at home.

it did feel like I was imagining it though... and then he started misbehaving at nursery...

with the reading thing. dd was reading and it was not showing at school until well into y1 I felt llike they thought I was delusional and one of those parents.

children do not always show what they can do at home in school.

(ps are you stealth boasting? )

legs it before I get slapped....

If you think there is a something going on, then there probably is. Listen to your instincts. I wish I would have done that earlier than I did.

When my ds was at pre school, and for the first couple of years at primary, all the slightly odd things were no big deal on their own. None of it was anything that would be considered that unusual for a three/four/five year old. Even though he was reading without any instruction at all and working out dates, I just thought I had a clever kid! But when you put all the little things together, it can pain a very clear picture, and when I started to think about it like that, it was obvious that ds had as.

He got very good support at school, so much so that when we got the diagnosis very little changed because they were already supporting him according to his needs. but we didn't get the diagnosis until year 3, and knowing what I know now, there are things that could have been done with him to help him even earlier. There are some brilliant resources out there that parents and carers and teacher can use, but they don't come cheap and the extra time and effort will not always be put in without a diagnosis.

I really strongly recommend that you go to your GP and ask to be referred as soon as you can, because waiting lists for some appointments are long and it is likely that your ds will need to see more than one person before he does or doesn't get a diagnosis. So the earlier the process starts and the earlier any interventions can begin the better.

Don't worry about sounding like you are boasting, there is nothing wrong with being proud of your child being able to read, I know I was! It evens out in the end anyway and every child brings their challenges, so you may as well enjoy it while you can!

Oh dear... some of this is sounding remarkably familiar!

The working out dates thing- ds also remembers exact incidents from up to 2 years ago (he is 5) down to what he had to eat.
He often has a meltdown if any kind of routine changes (which I don't actually give in to, and once a new routine is in place he is fine).
He used to be obsessed with the numbers on street lights(at 2/3) and would insist on dragging me down unfamiliar streets so he could check the numbers.
He has phobias (the cinema, the light on the stereo) and is totally obsessive about his interests, to the point of it being a problem when you have to tear him away from it.
But I have just always thought he was a bit neurotic (runs in family) and he is very affectionate.

Sorry OP, shamelessly hijacking thread! As you were..

Bump It doesn't sound good (the reading/knowing DS thing).

I wouldn't worry too much about his academic progress at pre-school. And I'd say that whether you had concerns re AS or not.

Pre-school leaders aren't necessarily trained teachers and don't have much if any training in ASD.

I'm a primary teacher and have taught children with ASD, their parents, the internet and my own reading/research were the only support I had. I have had no training in working with children with ASD :-(

I'm glad you've found some support on the SN board.