why are homebirth rate so low

[McHappyPants2012]

www.walesonline.co.uk/showbiz-and-lifestyle/health-and-beauty-in-wales/2011/02/05/wales-delivers-on-home-birth-rates-91466-28109298/

after watching 'call the midwife' it seems to me homebirth was quite common in the 1950.

when did hospital birth become a common

'You attitude seems to be homebirths are much better than hospital, but if anything becomes slightly complicated lets dump the homebirth and scurry off to hospital and all their nice equipment and medicines.'

Sounds good to me.

I don't think any one is advocating homebirth for everyone, no matter what issues they may have. Or an unassisted birth. Or a homebirth against medical advice.

Just that a woman she should be offered the opportunity to labour and deliver at home rather than the hospital with appropriate support, as recognised by the Royal College of Midwives and the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists. And a woman's own midwives who help her come to the decision that is best for her.

Had I run into difficulties I would have happily transferred to hospital and accepted anything necessary. As it was I had a trained medical professional who was happy for me to labour and deliver at home.

BTW Kelly2000--The Wax report has come in for a lot of criticism- see this article here from Midwifery today

www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/ajog_response.asp

well you have accused people of not caring about their children by having hospital births. But knowing people who have had low risk no intervention births, that have resulted in death who have then gone on to have hospital c-sections which resulted in healthy babies I might be a bit bias in thinking you are out of line accusing people who do not do what you of being bad mothers.

Kelly - as an individual without hundreds of hours to spend online reading research papers, and without the scientific training to unearth flaws in the methodology, I prefer to accept the findings of bodies like the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, and the Royal College of Midwives, who DO have teams of researchers who are trained and paid to go through these studies, discuss them, evaluate them, and summarise their findings for ordinary members of the public.

In relation to the subject of outcomes associated with place of birth, they have done this, and concluded that out of hospital birth is safe and has significant benefits for mums and babies.

So that's good enough for me.

I take my hat off to you that you are prepared to put so much work into reading hundreds of studies yourself and attempting to make sense of the results.

I'm just a bit surprised, given the ignorance you've shown on this thread about basic research methods that you feel confident to go your own way and to disregard the opinion of reputable organisations like the ones I've named above.

RT,
did you actually read what I saidf about the article coming in for a lot of criticism. My point was there are studies advocating both sides, and all studies have to be carefully examined - the studies saying homeborths are better have also come in for a lot of criticism. But the Wax study was actually re-examined, and the overall results came out the same.

No-one is saying women should be forced to have hospital births, but there are a minority on here who have claimed thta anyone who is low risk and wants a hospital birth, is misinformed, innaccuarate, should be challenged, and does not carry about their child's health.

"I wouldnt have a homebirth for many reasons. Firstly I dont think its fair that people at home get lots of midwives to themselves whereas often in hospital you are left to your own devices as they are so shortstaffed."

Prehaps its not fair that people in hospital get their sheets washed, are given food. I think you are getting a bit silly. Anyway with a lot of home births the midwife will not stay for hours and hours on end. If you are making slow progress she will pop off and visit other mums or do paper work.

It sounds strange, but I didn't really want lots of attention during the early stages of labour. In a well run hospital you only get the one to one care when you actually need it. I had a good hospital birth with ds and I was happy with the level of care.

My homebirth

I phoned the midwife at 1.30 and told her I was in labour . The midwife examined me at 1.45 and told me that I was 4 cm dialated. The midwife gave me her phone number and explained that she needed to do a postnatal visit. The midwife phoned me at 2.15 and asked how I was getting on. I told her that I was fine and happy for her to do her paper work. I phoned the midwife at 2.45 and told her that I had a show and that my contractions were getting stronger. The midwife arrived at 3pm. My husband also got back from work. At 4.00 I told the midwife I needed a poo. DD narrowly missed being born down the loo at 4.15. The second midwife arrived at 4.30. Both midwives left just before 6pm.

I actually had more midwife time with my first birth in a hospital as my first labour was 33 hours. I had one to one care for the last 6 hours because I had an epidural. In the hospital I had two midwives for the second stage. I also had quite a lot of help with breastfeeding and ds saw the paediatrian because of jaundice.

"you are out of line accusing people who do not do what you of being bad mothers."

Oh goodness, have we gone into 'you is saying I is a bad muvva!' territory?

I'm off to bed.

No Shagmund, your advice for a VBAC from a woman 20 minutes away from hospital who has a bicornuate uterus, as well as a previous cs, and was classed as high risk was:

"Nobody can tell you whether you should or shouldn't - it's such an intensely personal decision. We all have our comfort zones around risk-taking when it comes to birth."

and

"Actually I'd say you are at less risk of having a difficult labour at home."

That is not advice, that is ideologically driven rot. And your excuse is that:

Well - luckily Whatmeworry, the OP has the advice of her consultant and her midwife to balance out the personal opinions of posts she reads on mumsnet!

Every other poster on that thread is telling her is high risk and to get advice - except you, of course.

I think that shows you up for what you are - blinded by a belief based ideology to the extent you will give wilfully dangerous council.

www.rcm.org.uk/midwives/features/look-out-for-the-limitations/

I have not seen anyone on this thread accusing those who choose to give birth in hospital of not caring about their babies health.
I have seen lots of people trying to explain the findings of the largest, most up to date study on the outcomes for place of birth in this country.

I'm late to the "discussion" but R2PeePoo seems to say something along the lines that I would like to!

What annoys me in these bun fights is the same old line "I would have died had I had a home birth and so would my baby".... No one is talking about homebirth being compulsory! And guess what if you do choose a homebirth, you can change your mind at any time, either because you just don't like it after all or because your midwife has said that there is a medical need to.

During my homebirth my MW was concerned about my bp and advised a hospital transfer might be necessary - fine! In the end there was no need as the high bp was due to the pain and so G&A sorted that out. BUT problems are detected quickly and early in a hb and that's why I chose it (they normally are in hospital too but I wasn't taking any chances). I wanted constant care from a mw, not to be left in a room on my own with a mw checking in on me and 3 other women. On a purely anecdotal level, I haven't met a woman yet who hasn't been butchered/had their labour/delivery interfered with at our local MLU (which is in a very big hospital).

Back to the question, I think the decline of hb's is similar to the decline of bf-ing - its not seen as the norm anymore and birth has become over-medicalised. Birthing has been taken over by men, who have only recently realised that actually you don't need to sedate women and drag a baby out by forceps (unless needed).

Shag,
I have not shown ignorance on this thread unlike you, I have disagreed with you, but you are so egotistical you are convinced not agreeing with you is akin to ignorance. I also notice you skipped answering my eearlier questioning, and rant against c-sections despite the fact NICE say these are just as safe.
You have behaved disgracefully, accuisng women who wnat hospital births of being ignorant, misinformed, and not caring about their babies.
This article is from a newspaper report on a BMJ study, you might find this easier to understand as you say you find papers difficult to understand. www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/nov/25/low-risk-pregnancies-birth-choices

You might also like to remember that the RCOG and RCM do not say home births are safer than hospital births, just that there is no reason why low risk women should not be offered a homebirth. And that when they refer to safety they do nto just mean physically safety but also emotional safety.

Nobody's arguing that one type of birth is 'right' or another is 'wrong'. But it's quite fair to argue that someone has their facts wrong!

I disagree here shagmund - those against home births have made it quite clear that they think that choice is wrong, and that no amount of good quality research backing up the safety of homebirth is convincing them.

Fine, but since they are not the ones having the home birth I can't see why they are getting so annoyed. None of us who have had a home birth have said that it's right for everyone. None of us have suggested that we should be having unassisted births.
--
whatmeworry Shagmund, I think your advice on this thread....
^www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1402389--to-consider-VBAC-homebirth^
....is not just clearly ideologically led but is the most uncaring about safety that I've seen on this subject to date.

Sorry, could you point out where she is being idealogically led and uncaring?

Nobody can tell you whether you should or shouldn't - it's such an intensely personal decision.
We all have our comfort zones around risk-taking when it comes to birth
... For me it was the right decision, ....
What sort of input have you had from the VBAC midwife at the hospital?

That sounds like common sense to me - she's discussed it with her midwife and it was right for her. It's a personal decision that you need to discuss with your midwife.

Actually I'd say you are at less risk of having a difficult labour at home. And here whatmeworry you are quoting shagmund out of context and she is answering someone else. One of the problems with English is we don't know whether someone means you specifically or you in general. Reseach from the RCOG and RCM backs up that statement, but again the sensible decision is to discuss it with the staff who are caring for you, and weigh up the pros and cons for your circumstances.

petty,
or perhaps women just prefer the fact they are at the hospital, women who want hospital births may not be down trodden by men, or misinformed etc. Why is it if a woman wants a hospital birth she must have made the choice for the wrong reasons in the eyes of those who want home births.

and shag you have out and out accused people wanting hospital births as not caring about their children. Why you felt the need to change that to "chav" language I do not know, but it comes across as once you realise you cannot come up with a good arguement as to why you have the right to accuse people of being bad mothers you retreat to insulting again. It just comes across as insecurity in your own choices when you are so desperate for validation that you start insulting other people who do not agree with you. I do not see what is wrong with intervention so long as a healthy baby is at the end of it, as I said before I know someone who had three low risk pregnancies. The first one resulted in death due to lack of intervention, whilst the second two resulted in elective c-sections and healthy babies. I really do not see how she can be accussed of being a bad mother by going to hospital and having intervention.

Sorry, could you point out where she is being idealogically led and uncaring?

If on your planet a:

• VBAC
• 20 mins from hospital
• High risk
• Bicornuate uterus

Is best advised that:

"Nobody can tell you whether you should or shouldn't - it's such an intensely personal decision. We all have our comfort zones around risk-taking when it comes to birth."

Then you are so far up the same ideology you can't be trusted to see what is safe and unsafe safely either.

those against home births have made it quite clear that they think that choice is wrong, and that no amount of good quality research backing up the safety of homebirth is convincing them

No, they are merely pointing out that you pick and choose your research, to provide a false picture of benefit that in reality does not exist.

There is no conclusive evidence that the outcome is any better, and considerable evidence that outcomes are worse if there is any risk.

Whatmeworry.

Could you please explain to me how suggesting to mother she makes her own, personal decision on how to birth her baby is uncaring?

Could you please explain to me how suggesting to mother she makes her own, personal decision on how to birth her baby is uncaring?

I think a RTF is in order here......

I have also had one of each - HB was better for me (whale music isn't compulsory at home btw!). Undivided attention of two lovely midwives in both situations but being in my own home for the whole thing was so much better.

I think home births are all about the mother feeling ok, think about the baby !.. ?

An RTF?

An RTF?

I meant a RTFT

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1402389--to-consider-VBAC-homebirth

Actually, no point you raeding it as you are up the same ideological spout - better others read it in context and see ol' Shaggy's pearls of wisdom for what they are - barmy.

Nope, sorry. Still don't see uncaring there. What am I missing?

Nope, sorry. Still don't see uncaring there. What am I missing?

Not surprised. As I said, it's for other to read IMO. On that thread lies sanity (except for Ol Shaggy).

You still haven't explained why you think what shag said is 'uncaring'

Recall what the heck do you think the mother is thinking about whilst having her baby? Bizarre

If on your planet a:
- VBAC
- 20 mins from hospital
- High risk
- Bicornuate uterus
Is best advised that:
"Nobody can tell you whether you should or shouldn't - it's such an intensely personal decision. We all have our comfort zones around risk-taking when it comes to birth."
Then you are so far up the same ideology you can't be trusted to see what is safe and unsafe safely either.

It does not matter which planet I am or am not on.That poster was a 'high risk' woman canvassing opinions. She was offered some opinions and decided to 'discuss things frankly with the ob/mw next week'. That seems a very sensible decision and can't see a problem with that.

But this is all something of a red herring here. That person was a very high risk - most of the time here we have been discussing the situation for 'low risk' women and what is right for them.