To think that forgiveness is different from carrying on as before

[Molehillmountain]

My mother let me down by sharing the most private information possible, which we had shared with her saying explicitly that it was to go no further, with several of her friends. I now feel unable to share things with her as trust has been completely broken. I do feel I've forgiven her though-we see her, are inclusive with her and I don't feel or act unkindly towards her. My df wants me to be more "normal" with her and when pressed said that she would like me to share things with her and confide in her. He sees the fact that I don't as a sign that I've not forgiven her. Aside from the fact that I feel cross that he has asked this of me, Aibu not to put myself in the situation where I was so badly let down again? Or have I actually not properly forgiven her if I don't trust her?

You can forgive someone and yet not fully trust them. That's fine.

I know someone who was sexually abused by their father as a child. She forgives him entirely and even has some compassion towards him since learning about how he himself was abused as a child and therefore has some understanding. However, they'd never put their own child in his care as, quite simply they don't trust him!

Forgiveness and trust are 2 entirely different things in my opinion.

Has she apologised and promised never to break your trust?

If not, they you are perfectly reasonable not to trust her. Even then, it would take a while to regain trust.

Hmmm. I would say you haven't really forgiven her. In my mind, forgiveness means you've completely let an incident go. That means that you never bring it up again, or hold it against that person. However, complete forgiveness is really really difficult, especially in your situation. Your mother has shown herself to be very untrustworthy and so it's sensible for you to protect yourself by not telling her things in the future. Has she given you a sincere apology and promised it won't happen again? I think if she seems genuinely contrite then it might be time to let it go and move on.

That said, just because she's your mother doesn't automatically mean you have to confide in her. It's totally up to you who you tell things to and even if you do genuinely forgive her, it's ok if you don't want to confide in her in future. Just don't hold a grudge.

I think the 2 are seperate. she has to prove that she will not share info again. df is being unreasonable to demand forgiveness

Thanks! Don't know why I'd been mithering about it particularly tonight. My mother has huge reasons for being unstable and untrustworthy, but she still is those things. So I can forgive her, but no way trust her with anything personal. Not even opinions really-I dont want all and sundry knowing all about me.

From your second post it sounds like this incident isn't a one off. In that case you would be foolish to continue to confide in her as you have a lot of past evidence that you can't trust her.

You can forgive someone but not 'trust' them.

Truth is some people are complete gossips. If they can't help themselves even when specifically told to be keep quiet, if the thrill of telling trumps the wishes for privacy of the person involved, then how can you trust them?

I think you should talk to your mother directly. Going through your father is not helpful- you don't know if he's repeating what your mother has told him or if he's adding his own agenda to the mix.

You should take your mother out for a coffee and explain frankly that you were really hurt by her behaviour and as a result you can't share things with her the way you did. She'll probably be upset but if will at least open an honest line of communication. If she's anything like my mother she might not even have realised how hurt you were- she needs the wake up call. Don't let yourself be guilted out by your father.

Has she apologised? I think if your mum has shown she is unable to keep a secret, even when asked to, then she will do the same again.

No apology. It was such a big thing that dh and I confronted her with it. She was unable to acknowledge properly that she had shared the info saying she couldn't remember and that she supposed she might have, despite there being no other way the info could have got to the person who innocently brought it up with me. She would have been deeply afraid that we would lose contact with her over it-hence the vagueness I think. But thinking over things that I know about other people that I shouldn't, she has always had this problem. Forgiveness, yes, she has had terrible life experiences and serious mental health issues as a result. But trust-no.

Some good has come of it-I am so not a gossip. I assume that personal info and even opinions that people share with me are for me alone. Even when they don't explicitly say so and especially when they do.

Molehill - forgiveness is good - it sounds like you have let go and forgiven - that doesn't mean you have to put yourself in the same place with her flappy trap twice though.

Children that have been abused sometimes forgive their abusers - doesn't mean they would leave their own children with them.

When ex-dh had an affair and left - i have forgiven him, and we get on really well now- doesn't mean I'd want to get back with him though - it's a way of moving forwards, and letting go.

I am a big fan of forgiveness - but don't mistake forgiveness for trustingly putting yourself in the same situation x

Agree with bewildered. There is forgiveness and there is foolishness. If someone has shown themselves to be unreliable and has shown a real sense of that, then it is foolish to just forget the incident.

You can decide not to have hard feelings against someone without forgetting that they have done something.

A close friend knows someone who was horribly murdered. The murdered girl's mother is a Christian and has sincerely forgiven the man who did it. But how can she ever forget that? If they met, how could she treat him the same (she knew him beforehand)?

I don't think forgiveness entails forgetting.

has shown no real sense

Sounds to me that you have forgiven her but to ignore what she did and blunder in all over again, hoping she won't do it again would be plain folly. You know she's not to be trusted and you act on that but you have forgiven her for what she did. It is unreasonable of your father to expect things to be as they were before - that's denial (which is pretty worrying if you ask me). The carpet in their house must be pretty lumpy.

I think you can forgive someone but it would be folish to forget. I had a friend who betrayed me and then begged my forgiveness. I told her I could forgive but not forget.
She expected me to put myself back in the same position and I refused. She then went on to slag me off to all and sundry and was succesful in turning others against me!
She has gone on to do the same thing to others, including some of the people she turned against me. I think she has a problem relating to people in an honest way.
I still forgive her, but I'm glad I didn't let my guard down with her again.

YANBU. Forgiveness doesn't equate to inviting them to do it again, which is what would happen if things went back to the way they were...

Absolutely. Forgiveness isn't the same as thing as forgetting it ever happened.

Also make an effort to forgive yourself. You shared private information with someone who it turned out was not to be trusted with that information. You may well be kicking yourself for that mistake but you deserve forgiveness too.

so she has not apologized, not ackowledged she betrayed her child for the opportunity of a bit of gossip, but as far as she is concerned you should be telling her personal information.

How on earth does you forgiving her mean she has changed her personality, realises she behaved terribly all for the sake of gossip, and now realises that behaviour is wrong/ Tell her and df, that despite the fact she has not apologized or shown remorse you have demonstrated your forgivness by still having her in your life despite her act of betrayal, but that there is no reason for you to share anythign with her again. If DM has a problem with that tell her that she had a choice between being in your confidence or betraying her daughter for the joy of ten minutes of gossip, at the time she felt the gossip was worth more. Now she has got the joy of gossip, she wants to have her cake and eat it.

Definitely two seperate things, forgiveness is also for your sake so you don't carry bitterness and have anger eating you up. But it is wise to not make yourself vulnerable again, and you are also preventing your mother from letting you down again so badly - no secrets shared with her means both of you are safer.

Lumpy carpets for sure! Has taught me to be honest with my children, to apologise when things aren't right, even when actually I couldn't have done better and to make a concerted effort to change the behaviour that can hurt. But equally not to be paralysed by guilt or panic. I'm really relieved to hear I'm on the right track. I don't naturally and instinctively do this stuff because my instincts are based on my parents' pretty messed up experiences. I genuinely think they did the best they could with the emotional resources they have, hence forgiveness and they are not unkind, much as I've explored the idea that they could be toxic. I think mum feels dreadful that my childhood was as it was and just can't confront it with me. I am not sure that she understands people well enough to know that the only way to maintain confidentiality is to tell no one. These things have a habit of coming back. Had a wobbly weekend about it all as we are coming up to a trip away with them and part of me wants to go "you don't deserve this time and kindness". Whereas I know that I want to model forgiveness and family ties in my children. Hence the trip. It is a pleasure and a pain to see my lot enjoying time with grandma. Sometimes the forgiveness buried itself for a moment!