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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think if it was a white Tory rather than a black Labour poli...

98 replies

OldMumsy · 29/01/2012 19:01

re the smacking thing, this would have been big thing on MN, being all socialist and all that, bunch of hypocrites. Imagine if Boris or Dave had said smack your children you would have been screeching, but Lammy, nothing, nada...

OP posts:
OldMumsy · 29/01/2012 21:53

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

grubbalo · 29/01/2012 21:57

I think you're totally right in your first post OP although I then rapidly start to disagree with you. It's surprising more hasn't been made of the story.

I'd also bet my house that in actual fact, people involved in the riots are more likely to have been beaten as children (yes I do mean beaten rather than smacked).

Smacking is a totally ineffective method of punishment - I smacked my 3 year old 2 or 3 times when he was going through a particularly horrible phase about a year ago, and each time it was when I had totally lost control with him. It never helped the situation and other forms of discipline are much more effective. I hate that I ever did it to him.

JustHecate · 29/01/2012 21:58

HAHAHAHA! You're the old 'dish it out but can't take it' brigade.

You're so funny.

Pathetic and a bit stupid, but so, so funny. Bless your little cotton sockies, you're such a sweetums.

you just go back to calling us all hypocrites and that stuff you said in your now deleted jeremy clarkson op, and telling us that we have badly behaved children, and, you know, non bitchy stuff like that, and I'll carry on being a bitch and a bully for challenging you on your friendly, nice and non bitchy statements.

xxx mwah, mwah xxxxxxxxxxxx mwah mwah xxxxxxxxxxxxx mwah mwah xxxxxxxxx

BoysAreLikeDogs · 29/01/2012 22:02

all I can say is Advanced search is a marvellous tool isn't it

OldMumsy · 29/01/2012 22:07

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Message deleted by Mumsnet.

longfingernails · 29/01/2012 22:10

David Lammy is a MASTERMIND iaindale.blogspot.com/2009/01/when-david-lammy-should-have-known.html

BoysAreLikeDogs · 29/01/2012 22:11
Shock

How rude - someone disagreeing with you is ''deranged''? hubris, much?

OldMumsy · 29/01/2012 22:17

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

BIWI · 29/01/2012 22:20

Is there something the matter this evening, OldMumsy?

OldMumsy · 29/01/2012 22:23

Yes listeneing to total bollox has got me cross.

OP posts:
roundtable · 29/01/2012 22:26

Ooh someone's tired!

Best you go to bed op and hopefully you'll wake up in a better mood.

BoysAreLikeDogs · 29/01/2012 22:29

OldMumsy, your style is terribly familiar. Do you have other usernames on here?

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere · 29/01/2012 22:30

farking hell.

Quattrocento · 29/01/2012 22:31

I think there should be three options before posting

PREVIEW MESSAGE
POST MESSAGE
POST MESSAGE WITH A TALLY OF THE BOTTLES DRUNK NEXT TO THE POST

CardyMow · 29/01/2012 22:32

I am a 'raging lefty'. Mr Lammy is a twat. You do not have to hit your children to get them to behave well. He is a twat, whether you are right-wing or left-wing.

OldMumsy · 29/01/2012 22:34

I only post as me. I am not trolling. So stop trying to diminish me.

OP posts:
Vicky2011 · 29/01/2012 22:56

I think it's a fair point that if a Tory had said this there would have been a twitter frenzy of epic proportions and he would have had to issue a grovelling "clarification" in order to keep his job.

HOWEVER, I don't think this is all down to some left wing hypocritical conspiracy, it's to do with certain statements fitting into a narrative and an expectation that the parties have basic tenets which mean that an apparent action against that tenet is seen as less threatening than an identical action from the party which would normally be expected to hold those views.

Ok, I'm explaining this appallingly, I'll try to give a hypothetical example.

Labour MP makes statement which appears to suggest certain NHS services may need to be privatised. MP told to pipe down by Miliband but overall not much fuss.
Almost identical statement made by Tory MP, mahoooosive fuss, MP withdraws comments in order to avoid having whip withdrawn.

This is because people trust Labour to, at a basic level, support the principle of the NHS. Rightly or wrongly, they do not trust the Tories on the NHS so those comments would play to that narrative. It's the same reason why Labour is generally in a better position to reform public services as the public generally thinks it is on the side of the NHS etc. Reverse this and many polls have been done which show the Tories are better placed to make cuts in the armed forces because people feel, rightly or wrongly, that they believe in a strong defence. So it's a case of "well they wouldn't do anything too bad, would they?"

So back to Lammy. The reason why he hasn't been castigated like a Tory would have been is because, at a fundamental level, people think that he cares about the people who live in Tottenham and, even if they disagree with what he has said, generally don't think that he has said it from a negative standpoint. However, if a Tory said this, it would confirm the nasty-party perspective, people would assume that he had no understanding of the people he was referring to and was being classist and also probably borderline racist and hence it would be a whole bigger story.

I did my politics degree a long time ago :(

Anyone able to explain what I'm trying to say a bit better??

VivaLaSativa · 29/01/2012 23:00

Lammy is full of it, The riots were caused as a result of police racism.

"These parents are scared to smack their children and paranoid that social workers will get involved and take their children away"
Its out of touch tripe like this, that makes me want to flush my Labour membership down the toilet.

I'd also bet my house that in actual fact, people involved in the riots are more likely to have been beaten as children (yes I do mean beaten rather than smacked). This is spot on IMO.

CardyMow · 29/01/2012 23:02

I get what you are saying. I still think he is spouting drivel, despite being a Labour supporter. FFS I'd feel the same about anyone espousing physical punishment for children, no matter what side of the political divide they came from, no matter what age they were, no matter what skin colour they had, no matter about anything except the fact that they are trying to tell people to hit their children. Not MY fault he hasn't been publicly castigated - I feel he SHOULD be made to apologise for his remarks. Publically.

HillyWallaby · 30/01/2012 08:52

I understand you perfectly Vicky. Grin

Howver, I sat watching Lammy say this on the news last night with my [shocked] face on. what an utterly ridiculous thing to say on so many levels I just don't know where to start. I am hugely offended on behalf of all intelligent non-smacking working class people. And I sit ont he fence a bit on whether smacking is ever permissable, but to bring it down to class distinction and ethnicity distinction (he also mentioned that his constituency was 75% black and non-white ethnic minority as well, as though that made a difference Hmm) is a very bizarre, flawed and patronising thing to do.

Pendeen · 30/01/2012 08:56

Does not matter if the politician in question is black or white.

An idiot is still an idiot.

Hullygully · 30/01/2012 09:04

yy poor barking OM reminds me of another barker too...now who was it? First name began with a D...

ReshapeWhileDamp · 30/01/2012 09:45

Race doesn't come into it. Political affiliation doesn't come into it. Lammy is a twat, and deeply patronising to boot.

And have you heard the follow-up fuckwittery on this story? Caught it on R4 news just now. Apparently 'middle class parents' are readier to smack their DC because they have never had a run-in with SS and therefore don't 'live in fear' of having their children taken away for supposed abuse. Wheras 'working class parents' are now too cowed to smack because they fear the instant knock on the door. Hmm

FFS. I think the Today Programme news editor was channelling the Daily Fail this morning as on most mornings. Hmm

foglike · 30/01/2012 09:53

The only cynical thing I can see is intent.

How can a parent always judge all the time how to smack a child so as to not leave reddening?

In my opinion it's much better just to leave your hands in your pockets.

BarryShitpeas · 30/01/2012 09:57

Well this is going well...

David Lammy, any chance of coming back to do another MN webchat and qualify whether you really think we should be hitting our children?

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