to think that 8 years is too young to be playing Modern Warfare3 games?

[funnyperson]

An 8 year old proudly told me he loved playing Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3. His mum said he had all the others and had been give 4 other war computer games by doting relatives for Christmas. I looked it up - the games are rated 18 and might cause upset and distress.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/in-pictures-16745015
aibu to think that wargames have got out of hand for children?

Gribble it's a guideline, not a magical switch at the 23rd hour and 59th minute of your 18th year of life!

I think it's irresponsible to let 8-10 year olds play 18s, they are rated for a reason ffs! Yes I accept that at 15 ds will probably be playing 18s but currently in yr6, he's one of only a few that haven't been playing COD & MW3 games for a couple of years. Surely that's not good for young brains??

I think it must be far worse to be playing a game than watching a film - in the former you are actually the one acting it out.

In some ways I don't actually know why this debate exists at all. There are loads of fantastic computer games out there that aren't grossly inappropriate for children, what's wrong with sticking to them?

Sorry Jessie, random 'round here' means not very reliable, so I meant it in that way, not random as in pick outof a hat etc, sorry

"But as for universally trusting Parental Judgment. Pah. Don't make me laugh"
Why? Im confused by your point here, why not trust parental judgement?

And Jessie and Bertie - the reason I say about the magical switch thing is because many on this thread and on MN say the certificates are there for a reason, so therefore I get from that to mean under 18s cant play it but 18s can - therefore a 17 yo and 364 day shouldnt play it etc etc you get what I mean....

have played games like this, worse games, films about all sorts of awful things.Yet if i see something horrible on the news it will still horrify me because i can differentiate reality from a game.

I would consider it a valid to know what kind of media you'd been exposed to as a child to add weight to your anecdote. My brother and I regularly used to wake very early and watch the Nightmare of Elm Street films secretly, I'd seen most of them and other horrors by the time I'd left Juniors, I'd like to think I have a grasp on reality and am empathetic to the realities of murder and am affected by news stories, however I was also young when the Childs Play and Jamie Bulger murder debate was going on. Clearly there were other factors at play for such a heinous crime to be committed by two young boys, but it's a valid argument to speculate what exposure to dramatised violence may have had on their concept of consequence.

I'm strictly on the fence with these issues as it thoroughly depends on the child. As a general rule I would adhere to an 18 certificate and probably use my judgement for any rating under that for a child below the age of 10. You may have an 8 year old who has a concept of war and violence in reality or you may have an 8 year old who seems to be learning that it's a game and dissociating any reality from the concept which is dangerous.

I don't think most people would dispute the idea that the age rating is a bit fuzzy... ie that some 16yos can play an 18 game. But even for a blurry cut off age, 8 is ridiculous for an 18.

no idea how I turned that quote into a link?!? Sorry

I suppose a lot of parents take the view that age certificates are a point they no longer have a say in what their child is exposed to, you can facilitate your childs exposure to 15 rated media when they are 14 but on their 15th birthday the law says that choice is now theirs alone.

It's a one sized fits all approach but like any legal age limit it's the best we have. People don't magically become politically aware at 18, but that's when they can vote.

Why? Im confused by your point here, why not trust parental judgement?

Because giving birth/adopting does not endow one with good judgment. It does not endow one with understanding of child psychology, or implant one with 30 gigabytes worth of research into the effects of viewing particular types of material.

As illustrated by all the parents who buy games for their children without looking at them, or reviews for them. They certainly don't play them through first to check the cut-scenes!

I can believe that responsible parents may think an 18 is suitable for their "mature 15 year-old", and accept that they know their individual child better. Eight year olds playing 18s? No.

I personally watched all manner of horror films (Poltergeist, Exorcist, Psycho, The Birds) from 8-9 onwards. My mother would have sworn blind on an internet forum that she was a responsible parent! That I was unaffected by my viewing.

I had terrible nightmares and used to get scared about ghouls at night.

Jessie - agree with this point "Because giving birth/adopting does not endow one with good judgment. " BUTthere will always be feckless parents, and they are the ones who, IMO, are most likely to ignore the certificate rating anyway and buy the game and let their ids play it on their own for hours on end, without making the judgement on whether their DCs are mentally old enough for it.

I guess my view is skewed because I have played these games (as opposed to some of the handwrongers who have never even seen the game, they just jump on the hype bandwagon), and IMO they are not as bad as alot of people make out. Besides, there is an option to skip, or cut out altogether, the movie scenes which show some violent bits close up. The rest of the game is just a glorified souped up version of that fooking annoying shooting duck game that you used to get on the very first Nintendo - and as far as I know most of my generation havent gone to their local parks and blown away aload of mallards recently.

handwronger = handwringers, unfortunate typo there

Thing is Gribble, my dp and is mates regularly play together and and they do get hyped up and immersed in COD in a way that I don't think would be very healthy for a lot of younger children with no self control/boundaries.

The shooting ducks comparison isn't really valid, it's completely different objectives, narrative and graphics, the appeal on games like COD and GTA is the opportunity to play a character.

Best - "my dp and is mates regularly play together and and they do get hyped up and immersed in COD in a way that I don't think would be very healthy for a lot of younger children with no self control/boundaries. "

But Im assuming that responsible parents would just stop their child playing on it for hours on end, so this comparison isnt really valid

Gribble it's not just cut-scenes that are the problem. There's also the online play aspect.

I like playing online and trying to shoot strangers. I also know when to stop. I can withstand whinging by my team-mates about my imminent log-off. Children and young teens get caught up in online play, and retaliating against "Godufdistruction9c" who has sniped them 4 times.

Feckless parents may disregard certs, but that's no reason not to have them. If games weren't regulated, that would mean more children being given adult-market games, not less.

I don't get the parental judgement argument either. My main reason is twofold. I don't trust the judgement of someone who thinks it's OK to let their 8 year play COD therefore anyone who doesn't have the judgement to make that call. Neatly circular I think. Secondly, this debate goes round and round and someone invariably says that their child will be left out and the only one not playing. If you teach your child that being part of a group is more important than your judgment as a parent, I don't trust that judgment. And yes, I know this makes me sound like a crazy Puritan.

Jessie - re: the online play, there is a pretty simple solution to that you know.......

YANBU at all. Children should not be "playing" at fighting games. Aren't we supposed to shelter them from this type of thing for as long as possible??

It dosn't matter whether you see blood or not its violent isn't that enough reason for a child not to play it???

I know all the violent aggressive boys at cubs play games like COD and World of Warcraft etc. Is this just coincidental??

Cross-post, I see.

Reponsible parenting- a nebulous concept... I expect lots of parents plan to supervise their children's playing. In practice, their children have the XBox 360 and/or pc in their room, and are hence far harder to supervise.

I'm dp's bounderies in this house gribble , he's only allowed the xbox in the main room because of netflix/dvds (god I love netflix!) so his play time is pretty strictly curtailed!

See thats what I mean by responsible letting kids who are mentally mature enough play this game, as long as the parents control how long, where its played, turn off the gore etc. Dont get me wrong I know there are knobs who would just happily let their kids shut themselves away on their own, IMO thats not being responsible about it.

Best - spoilsport

Flight - yes it probably is coincidental. My DN who is 9 is a lovely boy, never seen any sign of aggression or anything and he plays COD and similar games. One of his mates who isnt allowed to play them is a total nightmare and used to bully my DN.

I just had a thought and am not sure how well I'll articulate it so bear with me...

I don't really have a problem with kids playing out your typical 'fighting games', cops and robbers, spaceman and aliens kind of thing, so why would I have a any reason to question the comparison with playing similar games on a computer?

I think it comes down to 'it'll all end in tears', when kids are interacting physically and face to face they're learning boundaries and consequences if they do something which upsets a friend. It's a social learning curve I suppose. With a computer game that doesn't have any real limits the child that is overtly violent, generally nasty when hyped up in the moment isn't getting any opportunity to be corrected and learn something that doesn't come naturally to them.

I would imagine it's a difficult lesson to teach some children who don't learn particularly well through abstract rules that they've not had chance to experience and could be difficult for all parents to spot the gap where intervention would be necessary.

"typical 'fighting games', cops and robbers, spaceman and aliens kind of thing"

I'd have no problem with those, and many are available in an age-appropriate range which I'd be very happy for children to be playing.

But I'd no more give an 8 year old an 18-rated game than I'd let them watch an 18 film. That 10 year gap in expected maturity is too much.

Anecdotes about effect on people one happens to know don't really advance the debate. The only evidence (which I agree may not yet be sufficient) shows that playing these games does desensitise individuals to violence in RL.

I am a childminder and I mind 2 boys (7&8 yr old brothers) they both play this game and may other 18 rated games such as grand theft auto. I am appalled at their behaviour surrounding the games, they tend to have very violent conversations and attempt to act out scenes from the games with each other! Not on at all.

My 9 year old plays on them, he doesn't like play fighting in rl as he doesn't like getting hurt. He understands the difference between rl and a game