To be furious with school over this and to call them on lack of care

[amistillsexy]

Disclaimer-I have many issues with the way this school treated my DS1, which I won't go into, but suffice to say I may be over-reacting about this as a result! That's why I'm posting here-I need to get some views on if I am over-reacting or not.

My DS2 came home from school crying with pain yesterday. His Dad had picked him up at the normal time, and could see as soon as he came out that he was not well. He was white, with bright red lips and sunken eyes.

DH said 'what on earth's the matter with you?' and the TA said 'Oh, he's just said at hometime he doesn't feel very well.' DH carried DS2 home from school as once he saw his dad, DS2 just 'collapsed' (the way they do!) and started to sob.

I was at home and DH carried DS2 into the house, clutching his head and crying out. He had a severe headache and a temperature of 29.6 (digital thermometer, same one our GP uses), which peaked later at 40.2.

Once I'd got him settled with Calpol, cuddles, drink, CBeebies, etc, I asked DS2 and DS3 (in the same class) to tell me what had happened. The story is:

DS2 felt ill at lunchtime. After lunch, the children sat on the carpet. He cried, but no-one asked him why. He went to lie down in the little bed in the home corner. He stayed there all afternoon. None of the adults asked if he was OK, although one of his friends did, and DS2 told him he was poorly. At afternoon playtime, DS2 stayed in, while the other children played out. He thinks his teacher was in the classroom, but she didn't talk to him.

When I asked why he didn't go and tell the teachers he was ill, he said he didn't want to tell anyone but mummy .

We had settled him and established the facts by 4.15 (school closes at 3.15), so DH rang the school to ask what had happened and why didn't they ring us?

Their phone was on answerphone and he left a strong but polite message but no-one rang back.

I now want to just write to the Ht, the Govs and the LEA to complain that they have totally failed in their duty of care.

AIBU?

AmIStill - I feel for the crap position you are in. This latest thing has clearly upset you - if it was our school it wouldn't because I know it wouldn't be deliberate, just a set of circumstances that ended up in a less than ideal situation, but not the end of the world (your son is not that little girl), but given your school's history I'm not surprised you are so upset.

The thing is, your boys are both young (the two that are there) - they have many years of primary school ahead of them, what are you going to do? You cannot leave them there and be dealing with stuff like this for the next 5 years!!

Could you not homeschool them and do some tutoring?
Can you not move them to your school?
Are you on waiting lists for all the other local schools?

You have to do something or you are going to have a breakdown, let alone how it will affect the boys.

If it is as your DS has described (definitely get the teacher's side before you do anything else!) then it was unacceptable. Even if they didn't notice him crying, a child who was sleeping/lying down all afternoon should have been checked on.

second lockets.

But that's why it is so important to get the adult version too.
He's 5 and is ill, that is not in dispute. But lying down ill all afternoon?
Could have been since afternoon break for ten minutes, but to him it seemed like forever. He could have napped for a bit and thought he'd been asleep hours. Few reception can tell the time, even on MN.

They should have noticed, you a right about that, but I don't think you can be completely sure that they didn't.

I think you are expecting too much to think you shoud have the right to choose whether to pick him up or not. If we request a phonecall to a parent because there is a strong possibility of a high temperature, we would expect that child to be picked up. We are not childcare!

Although there have been times with the very little ones where they are repeatedly saying they don't feel well and we will always err on the side of caution. My opinion is that if a young child is saying they are ill and persisting with it all afternoon, then they are probably ill, but even if they are not then they are still saying it for a reason and they should know that we care about them enough to take it seriously.

thanks, lockets. It is hard to separate the two sometimes, and when I was teaching I would always contact the parents if I thought there was something they'd want to know-it's about working in partnership and building trust.

Chipping don't think I haven't had this conversation a million times! No longer teaching-or else would consider it. They do enjoy school, but I am only too aware that their experience could and should be very much better.

Some teachers have come on here defending the teacher...Please don't think I'm generally 'teacher bashing', I'm not. This is NOT a difficult school. The classes are tiny, the area is very affluent, and the school is well-staffed (numbers wise!) and well supported by the PTFA. There are next to no behaviour issues and most of the children are tutored in some way from an early age to make sure they win a place at Grammar school.

Friday afternoons every week are given over to 'Golden time' for the whole school. DS2 was lying in bed for his 'golden time', when usually he would be drwaing, writing or building.

I also think that if you are going to keep using the school you need to encourage your dc to trust the teachers and get your dc to tell them when there is any kind of a problem.

I'd be furious too. It's all very well for teachers to say 'I might not notice one child resting' but all ruddy afternoon? That's neglectful. The school has a duty of care to your son and they have fallen very short.

My children's school would have contacted me in this situation, indeed sometimes I am slightly irritated by them ringing up to tell me about my children's tummy ache/headache etc when it seems something quite trivial, but I do absolutely appreciate their thoroughness, and your story about the little girl is just so tragic.

But as a teacher, you know the right thing to do is get the other side of the story first (even if you do think they will bend the truth/back each other). It may be that one of them asked your son 'are you ok?' and he nodded. I find it quite hard to believe that no adult spoke to him for over two hours in a small classroom with three adults in it, so I would tread carefully and find out as much as you can. At five, my dd2 was really living in a world blurring pretend and reality and used to come home and tell us that she'd had a MacDonald's for lunch, or they'd visited a theme park.

But, it is worth raising it with them and letting them know your concern. I also wonder as someone else has said, if you are going to keep having issues with this school as you just don't have faith in them. In my experience, with two children, there are times the school stuffs up in every child's education (forgets to include them in something, they get told off unfairly, they get lost, someone bops them on the nose etc). I think every time this happens, it is going to worry you further they are in the wrong place. I am not sure of the solution, except to keep thinking on whether you can move them, and perhaps pick your battles.

In this instance, a quiet word with a class teacher would suffice, I think. If they are a good teacher, they will be mortified.

The teacher/TA (DH doesn't know which!) who came out said DS2 had said he wasill at hometime. She did not mention that he'd been in the bed all afternoon.

Dust at few reception able to tell the time-Even on Mumsnet. He didn't go bty time though, he went by lunchtime (he lay down after their 'sit on the carpet after lunch' bit, when he cried) to playtime (still in bed, all other children out to play) to hometime (when he got out of bed to put on his coat).

Iusetoomuch I woould have rung a parent if I wasn't sure if they were faking it-some parents would err on the side of caution, and some would say 'no, he was trying that on this morning-he has the dentist after school!'

If I was sure they had a high temp and needed to be at home, I'd have rung for someone to collect.

But this school did neither. They were unaware that there was any choice to be made! They didn't know he had a high temp because they didn't check. That's my point. They did not take care of him.

BTW he has not got better. He has been ill all day, still with high temp. Lowest it's been with calpol has been 38.

They SHOULD have called the OP and they SHOULD have checked on him. A small child lying down for that long is not normal. I would be livid too OP and I am not a fussy type. I have had a sickly DD delivered to me end of day and understood it was because she wasn't that ill or just got ill in the afternoon. BUt you have every right to be angry by the sound of it.

I hate to think of nobody looking after the OPs DS...he small stil and they need an adult to keep a close eye out...a kind word to him and a call home was all it would have taken!

Sorry, keep X-posting.

I have tried to get DS2 and 3 to trust the school. This situation doesn't help.

Ds2 is very observant and firmly grounded. I think he didn't say anything because he wanted to tell me. But, any one who looked at him would have seen he wasn't right. He looks like shit! Even DH (least observant person in th eworld) saw it straight away.

You have summed it up, band.

The fact that he didn't want to tell them shows that he is more in need of care, not less.

They haven't done anything to make him trust them more in the future, in fact they've made it worse.

Unfortunately, that is what happened with DS1. I never wrote a letter of complaint, kept going in for 'quiet words', was ever so understanding. By the time I snapped, I was having that breakdown you mentioned, Chipping, and I was too taken up with sorting out the fallout, home schooling and getting a new school to think about complaining. By the time I'd got back on my feet, the 6 month's period to complain was over. Now, I want to get everything in writing, because I know how easy it is to let it all build up till it overwhelms.

I would feel the same lockets, and I honestly can't imagine a situation where we wouldn't notice that a child was lying down all afternoon. But that is what makes me think that he might not have been lying down the whole time, it's amazing what sick but enthusiastic children can do when they want to!

I know, Iusetoomuch, but he is soooo poorly-really limp and lethergic. He has not got off the sofa all day and every time he does get up he walks like an old man! He wouldn't eat at all at lunchtime today, and only ate his soup at tea time because I spooned it into him.

I honestly think they are too wrapped up in their own affairs to notice- during golden time, the adults all tidy up and do their planning for next week while the children play around them (I used to go into support them with DS1 and was at the lack of attention/teaching time-coming from a background of teaching in deprived areas and hard-to-reach families: we were 'hands-on' from 9 till 3.45 and beyond!)

for your little boy. I hope you are all ok.

Tbh, if it's part of the culture of the school to do planning and tidying away when they should be interacting with the children, it's going to take a lot more than a word with the teacher to solve the problem.

I know. That's why I am wanting to write. It won't be the fiirst letter of complaint, and it might just be the one that gets the school properly OFSTEDed. They are on a long inspection because it was so good last time (with a different HT and Deputy, in a school with only 3 classes).

The HT really does not listen to parents at all. She would probably react by ringing me to collect one or both of them 3 times a week, every time they sneezed or coughed, just out of spite.

OP, I was just going to say pretty much what Jasper and hardgoing said.

That's not about 'defending' teachers and your OP doesn't sound teacher-bashing, it's just about explaining to you how reception works.

I used to have lots of children go and lie down in the quiet area, fall asleep in the book corner, choose to sit an activity out. As Jasper said, it's all part of the EYFS. It's not feasable to ask every child if they're ok all the time. Sometimes they were ill, sometimes they were tired. Sometimes they seemed ok and reported being ok but as soon as they stood up it was clear they weren't!!

By reception it's not usual for a child to keep it to themselves if they're not very well. It might be worth explaining to him that he needs to tell the teacher so that she/he can get mummy for him if he needs her.

Not only that but children can become ill and 'deteriorate' very quickly. It might be that he had looked a little under the weather but not seemed as bad has he was by the time you collected him.

I'm not saying the school was right but, speak with the teacher/HT first and judge your next move by the response you get from them. If you are not happy with that, take it to the governing body. If that doesn't work then go to the LEA. I would contact the school in writing explaining that you need to speak with them and then keep copies of all correspondence. There is a complaints procedure - ask the school for the details. I wouldn't leave much time between either. I'd be giving timescales for responses. That way you won't be sitting here in 4 weeks time having got nowhere.

It might be evidence of serious lack of care and neglect, or it might be that one professional slightly misjudged a situation which meant that by the time you picked your DS up it was worse than it had been earlier. She wasn't to know how your DS's quietness would escalate.

Without knowing how your child reacts when ill I'd say it's diffucult to know if the school was right or not. My DS can suddenly go from being absolutely fine to having a 39 plus temperature. As an example, he was at his Grandparents for half term once (age 6), the 2 GPs know DS very well and are also both recently retired primary school teachers so you'd expect them to be very clued up about kids feeling ill.

They got to ours (1.5 hour car journey) and I hugged DS etc, my mum commented he'd slept in the car and was very tired but then rattled off all the fun they'd had in the morning (ie he'd been fine). I sat cuddling DS for about 20 mins on the sofa thinking he was just pleased to see me after a week away. After about 20 mins I realised he's not normally that cuddly and it was only then that I felt his head and realised he was hot. Quick thermometer check and he was 39.8, tonsils all gakked up etc and we were off to the docs.

My point is, this is my son and it took me a good while to realise he was ill, my mum was amazed at how quickly the temperature had come on and horrified that she'd no realised. I don't blame her or me for not noticing sooner as it comes on so fast with DS - could it have been the same with your DS and school? You really do need to speak with them first to establish exactly what happened, especially given he's young and it isn't that unusual for little kids to be tired/sleepy/etc in the afternoon...

YANBU if the versions of events by your DS' 2 and 3 is correct.

I am though surprised DS3 didn't report his brothers illness or another child. I work in a school and how anyone could fail to notice a child lying all afternoon in a home corner is beyond me and children this age report every bogey and mis giving to an adult.

The problem here (I think) lies in the fact that you have such issues with the school that you aren't going to believe the HT/ teacher if their version of events differs from your DS'. They may be telling the truth with what they tell you.

My friends DD fell asleep in the teachers chair quite often in year R! Only once was she actually ill but the teacher didn't know because it was normal and she didn't tell the teacher. Is your DS2 often sleepy in the afternoon at school?

Also consider that children often 'cope' until they see a parent when they get the emotional overdrive as well as the feeling ill. I collected DS from juniors (yr 3) last term because they said he was practically unconcious on the sofa and feeling sick. He wasn't moving and/ or talking and I had to carry him out. He'd been fine until 5 minutes before they rang me and I was only 5 minutes to collect him. After he projectile vomited when we got home, he was absolutly fine and no symptoms. (allergy related we think but neither school or I picked this up at the time). Children go down hill very quickly.

YANBU. They should have noticed he was unwell and they should have called you. It is their job.