To let my 2.5yr old cry it out tonight

[lecce]

He has never slept through. He currently goes to bed at 7 on the bottom bunk in ds1's room and when he wakes (could be anytime between 10-12) I bring him to our bed where he spends the rest of the night bf, sleeping right on top of me, squeezing, pummeling, scratching my boobs. Not surprisingly, I get very little sleep.

I am a f/t teacher and have to be up at 5.30 everyday. Dh is sahd and has MS. Usually he is 100% fit but he has been having an attack for the last 2 weeks meaning that he is very tired and does not have full use of one of his legs and arms. We have had family up to help with childcare but the housework that dh would normally do (pretty much all of it!) has, understandably not been done. The house is a shithole, basically. Even doing a minimum to maintain basic cleanliness will take all day. Every jigsaw we own is in bits all over the sitting-room floor, the ktchen has not been touched, other than cooking and washing up, all week, the bathroom is a tip. We have a dog to walk, rabbits to clean out and I really need to do some school work as well.

The dc have spent the last 2 weeks watching telly constantly (though ds1 is at school) and I really need to give them some decent attention as well.

I am so shattered I can't think straight but I really can't keep up this sleeping system. I honestly do believe he will eventually grow out of it but I don't think I can go on with it much longer. I really did try last summer and did not feed at night for three weeks but just comforted him in his own bed. The crying never got any less over that whole period and it pretty much ruined the summer as I didn't really sleep for half of it.

If I just leave him to cry it out will he eventually sleep? Is it horribly cruel? is there anything else I could try?

Sorry for the essay and thanks for any advice.

The Australian Baby Whiperer Sheyne Rowley does a role play technique before trying to do sleep training.
Using her method, at 12 months, my baba went from being breastfed to sleep, co-sleeping and waking every 2-4 hours for a feed, to falling asleep by herself in her own cot and sleeping 12 hours a night without waking.
The first night there was 10-15 mins of intermittent crying but she finally fell asleep and slept all night through. The next night she did it with no crying at all.

We did a 10 minute role play twice a day for 3-4 days beforehand to make this work
It felt like I was using magic!

My DD was BF and co-slept until 34 months, at which point she asked to go to her own room, self weaned and usually sleeps through now. (Wakes if she needs the loo or bad dreams). At nearly 2 she was still BF about 90 times a night (OK not that many but it felt like it!) we used the DR JAy Gordon night weaning method which worked perfectly for us (and still allowed us to co-sleep as that was what worked for us,) she just BF to sleep....

Whatever you decide to try, good luck. You need all the sleep you can get, as does DH.

I hope DH is feeling a bit better soon.

I don't suppose you could afford (or you have a relative that could afford) to pay for a cleaner to do a one off clean for you? That would be a big weight lifted off your shoulders.

Are you claiming all the benefits you are entitled to? It might pay to check to see if you are entitled to any additional help when DH is bad.

Don't worry about the kids watching a lot of TV - it's all some kids do when they aren't at school. It wont hurt them for a few weekends.

I feel for you...my DD is 3 and a half and I have only JUST managed to get on top of all this...she's a 2nd child too. Dont feel bad about the other DC watching telly for a few weeks...it's normal!

It's all I EVER did in the 70s and I'm fine.

www.amazon.co.uk/New-Baby-Toddler-Sleep-Programme/dp/0091825911

This book is fantastic, see if your local library has a copy.

I haven't read all the responses, but I would ask someone else to go to your child at night to soothe him, so that BF is not an option.

Good luck!

www.amazon.co.uk/New-Baby-Toddler-Sleep-Programme/dp/0091825911

if you want to avoid cio then the no cry sleep solution book has ideas and also the baby whisperer forum is useful

*The Australian Baby Whiperer Sheyne Rowley does a role play technique before trying to do sleep training.
Using her method, at 12 months, my baba went from being breastfed to sleep, co-sleeping and waking every 2-4 hours for a feed, to falling asleep by herself in her own cot and sleeping 12 hours a night without waking.
The first night there was 10-15 mins of intermittent crying but she finally fell asleep and slept all night through. The next night she did it with no crying at all.

We did a 10 minute role play twice a day for 3-4 days beforehand to make this work
It felt like I was using magic!*

Can you tell us more about this please?

Don't know if this helps but I have read on here that some women actually wear clothing to bed that makes their breasts completely inaccessible to the child. So maybe a feed when he wakes and then your chest goes away for the rest of the night?

Dd is 2y4 and until 2 was still BF at night and had never slept through. A combination of greater understanding on her part and seriious bribery , in choc button in the morning means she now sleeps through, feeds bedtime and some Mot ings. If she does wake briefly telling her its nigttime usually works.

Don't know what the answer is sorry justvwantrd to give you hope that things can change at abt this age. Ds was similar, would have been earlier but birth of baby sis set him back a bit. Sympathise, hope of improves

Yep! No problem. This is the book we used
www.amazon.co.uk/Dream-Baby-Guide-Positive-Management/dp/1741753252/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1327772267&sr=8-1

The book itself is 750 pages long, but I skimmed most of it and just read the section on the role play and bedtime routine. The book in a nutshell is all about (1) establishing better communication with lo throughout the day (I've just noticed the blurb says 0-2 year olds, but hey, it's worth a shot to try it with babas a few months older), so that they follow your lead at bedtime, and (2) getting them to sleep using the same bedtime routine with plenty of warning about each step beforehand, with the same dialogue every night. If they wake during the night, you just repeat the last few lines of the bedtime dialogue to resettle them. The role play is done using a teddy or dolly. One person goes through the bedtime routine with the dolly, while another person holds baba and lets them observe the entire routine and it's ultimate conclusion of dolly being fast asleep. You do the role play 2-3 times a day for 3-7 days I think depending on circs.
Our routine goes like this;

30 mins before bedtime: "Okay baba, play with your blocks now and then it's time for night night" (say "dolly's night night" when doing role play)

5 mins before: "Okay baba, nearly time for (dolly's) night night"

1 min befor: "One last play baba, then it's time for (dolly's) night night"

Bedtime: "Okay baba, time for (dolly's) night, night. Up, up"

(extra bit when doing role play: "Let's go find dolly, oh here she is! Hello dolly, cuddles for Mama, cuddles for Dada, cuddles for Baba. Oh we love dolly, she's so cuddly!")

"Let's go get into our sleeping bag and then we'll read your book"

Baba into sleeping bag, sit down and read books for about 5 mins. Give Baba notice of events while reading book "nearly last page" "last page" "time to pack away book, time for night night"

Smile at baba and say "okay Baba, time for sleep, Mama and Dada love you, time for night night" Give kiss and cuddle and repeat

Turn out light and turn on white noise if using it

Walk over to cot, give baba soother if they use one, lay them down in your arms and rock them very slowly while singing Twinkle Twinkle twice

Say "time for sleep, Mama and Dada love you, time for night night, lie down"

Lay Baba down in cot and pat them gently while saying;
Sh sh sh sh Time for sleep
Sh sh sh sh Mama and Dada love you
Sh sh sh sh Time for sleep
Sh sh sh sh Mama and Dada love yo
Sh sh sh sh Night night

Sh sh sh sh Time for sleep
Sh sh sh sh Mama and Dada love you
Sh sh sh sh Time for sleep
Sh sh sh sh Mama and Dada love yo
Sh sh sh sh Night night

Stop patting, walk out of room and close the door audibly so they know you're gone. If they're doing sleepy crying, wait and see do they settle themselves but if they're doing upset crying, go back in and resettle them with the "sh sh" bit as frequently as you feel they need it so they don't get overwhelmed or frightened.

(When doing the role play, you add a little bit here where you ask baba if they can hear dolly crying, turn away and pretend to be dolly by making crying noise. Say "oh dear, dolly's crying, let's go see her" Go back into room, shut door, repeat the "sh sh" part of the routine and leave. repeat the crying bit once or twice if you want, but then at the last one leave a silence after saying "is dolly crying", then say "listen, no crying! Dolly's gone night night! Yeah!" and clap and cheer.

Whooo! that took ages to type, basically our routine is a modified version of the one in the book, if you want to try it, I'd certainly recommend getting the book as it give a lot of troubleshooting advice and advice for people with nobody to help them role play eg, but if anyone's being driven to try cio, it might save your sanity to give the role play above a shot first.

r Jay Gordon has good suggestions for bf families whose children prefer to bedshare but who would like to make changes to their nighttime feeding/sleeping arrangements. Also some suggestions on Kellymom here and www.kellymom.com/parenting/sleep/index.htmlhere. Last one includes a link to extracts from the no cry toddler book by pantley already mentioned.

There are lots of things you can try that might be less stressful for you than CIO but help you achieve a situation more acceptable to you tthen the one you're in now . You must be very tired .

Oh poo. My link went wrong. Second one here

Thanks for all that typing! So really a combination of the role play, clear cues about what is happening next and a bedtime routine.

I think role play definitely becomes increasingly useful as they come up to 2+. Interestingly, the Toddler No Cry Sleep Solution has a similar idea involving making a personalised story book, showing the toddler going through his bedtime routine and finally being asleep. The story is then read to them on a regular basis!

Hi, my DD (almost 2.5) would wake up anything from 2-3 times a night often demanding milk and screaming. I would always cave in and was always complaining that I couldn't get her to sleep through until one day I did it. I did the controlled crying my mum had been telling me to do for yonks. It took 3 nights of crying, none of those nights lasted more than an hour and a half and now she sleeps through most nights except for illness and general disruptions.

I wish I had stopped trying to be so right-on sooner. I was so worried about upsetting her I nearly drove myself to suicide. I had tried all the softer nicer methods in the hope that she would respond but in the end CC was the answer. One caveat is that DD is still in a cot and I have no other children. It might be worthwhile having your other child stay away for a couple of nights if possible and putting a stairgate on the bedroom door as there is bound to be one hell of a protest.

DD is now happier as she is rested and so am I. I don't think I have done her any lasting damage and if I have it's probably less than the consequences of me never getting any sleep.

Hope that helps.

Is he old enough to understand rewards? We used a sticker chart with my ds when he got into bad habits - he got a sticker for staying in his bed all night, then a reward after say 4 or 5 stickers.

YANBU
DD is nearly two and until a few weeks ago she had slept through once. We'd sit with her until she went to sleep and she'd go off quite easily. She'd then be up at least three times, sometimes for hours. DH or I usually ended up sleeping on her floor. I'd forgotten what it was like to not be tired
I'd had enough. I'd been completely against CIO but we had tried everything else. One night I just put her to bed, said that I lwasn't going back in until the morning and went. She whined for about thirty minutes (shouting she wanted a story/drink/the loo) and then went to sleep. She woke about three, did the same briefly and then went back to sleep. She's slept through since then (12ish hours). I would have stopped if she'd been upset though
I know we were very lucky, but as PP have said, at his age you can explain what will happen. Good luck.

Oh - we do choc button in the morning too. I'm not above bribery if I get some sleep!

Lol BranchingOut, you put it so much better than I did. Once I started typing I just couldn't seem to condense it

I have Elizabeth Pantley's Nap Solution and Baby Sleep Solution books and love them both, but that toddler one sounds great! I think I'll get it for my goddaughter

OP? YANBU. Sounds like circumstances have changed and you (and DS) have no choice but to change with them. Kudos on lasting until he was 2.5 years. I only lasted 12 months! You're a great Mum!