Mr Gove - AIBU to ask you personally to come on here and explain why schools never punish or exclude the bully

[marriedinwhite]

In response to the bullying and behaviour thread and the comments that have made it clear that teachers can do nothing to properly manage bullying and poor behaviour because it links with Ofsted's idea of behaviour management and means schools are less likely to receive outstanding or good at inspection, would you care to explain why it is the usually silent and compliant majority who are made to suffer.

As a parent good behaviour management means ensuring that the compliant, well behaved and hard working majority are allowed to learn in a reasonable environment.

As a parent I would expect teachers to be congratulated for trying to ensure this is the case.

As a parent I expect the achievements of the majority to be maximised by ensuring there is a positive educational environment for the majority.

As a parent I expect the bullies and those who behave badly to be the ones who are punished and to lose educational opportunities.

As a parent I expect organisations such as Ofsted to be supporting the well behaved majority and ensuring they have every opportunity to succeed and that those opportunities are not diluted.

As a parent and a citizen I would be happy to pay a few more shillings in tax to fund specialist units to deal with those who are ruining school experiences for the majority and to ensure they receive the specialist help they need to both conform to society's norms, to receive an education and to support them to lead peaceful, productive lives later on. This would be an investment in all our futures because the damage that is presently being allowed to take place - the chipping away at standards for all - can only have a detrimental effect.

So come on Mr Gove, come on here and tell us if you think it would be acceptable for your children to have be educated alongside, thieves, the violent, the uncontrollable and the disruptive whilst you watched their teachers do nothing but make excuses because their hands are tied behind their backs for all but the most exceptional cases where someone undoubtedly has been badly hurt.

The problem is that there is nowhere to send these kids to, so they wash up back at the schools.

The thing is, they need to be stopped from bullying at primary school; I suspect that once they're secondary school age, it's too late. They will have had tons of practice, and know it's what they're good at.

And that it's a successful way of life.

I thought this was an interesting take, from a teacher's perspective ...

behaviourguru.blogspot.com/2012/01/newsnight-and-dark-arts-of-exclusion.html

I agree that violent disruptive children should be excluded but in the current economic climate they just end up going to another local school and introduce the same problems at that school.

Bullies should have much more supervision at school. At my ds's school there are a number of problem children and playtime is a terrible time of the day for many children, when the staff are inside having a well earned coffe break there should be specialist play workers on the playground helping to supervise the children , and not just the dinner ladies who cannot always deal with the issues that arise. There should also be specialist teaching assistants who go to classes that need extra supervision and management of difficult children.

I do also agree that there are often two sides to a story, eg children with AS and ADHD at my ds school are often wound up on purpose at playtime to see how they react, and then they are the ones who get into trouble. So therefore specialist supervision is the key.

I revert back to my post about a clear definition of bullying, what the op is talking about is behaviour management. I know schools struggle with this but parents have a huge responsibility here. Bullying a different issue and yes schools should all have an anti bullying policy that works. all the schools where I live have one, it's discussed regularly at LA level and I have been to several workshops and conferences about it especially in anti bullying week.

frankie yes thats true about adhd/asd kids.

i remember one delightful little boy (nt) used to scream deliberately into ds face repeatedly and laugh.Ds (adhd/asd) reacting by biting the boy. Ds has noise and personal space issues.

Guess what.. ds was the one in trouble, The teacher defended the boy who was bitten.

Yes biting was wrong but the other boy should have been punished too. It annoyed me so much

I was bullied for a decade by the same person. My parents even switched me to a different school, but he transferred too about 3 months later. He undermined me at every turn, made passive-aggressive comments, laughed at me every time I spoke in class, waited outside the school gates for me, followed me home every night, sent me threatening messages and turned my whole class against me. There was so much more but the worst was feeling that he's just follow me anywhere I went and there would be no escape.

I went mental on him after years and years of emotional, psychological and physical abuse, and put him in the hospital with fractured ribs, a broken wrist, dislocated shoulder and bloody nose. It's the only time I've ever lost my temper so much. The years of abuse just stacked up and I eventually exploded...

I was suspended for a week. He got all sorts of support because apparently he was "the victim". Even with a whole slew of people telling the teachers about my victimization, nothing was ever done. But as soon as I retaliated I was practically put in shackles.

It disgusts me how people treat the bullies of our society.

Mr Gove will not recognise the problem because he is a bit of a bully himself.

My DD said a while ago "I wish I could punch someone then cry and get away with it" which is exactly what happens at her school - one child decides to thump another, and as long as they then cry never mind what the victim says, its the poor bully who needs to sit in the play therapy room for a while and talk about his feelings.

I see that an anti-bullying campaign has recently been awarded a big grant to step up the campaign, but heads just get away with it, I think the previous poster who talked about their head teacher being more concerned with getting his own way to sell off the playing fields hit the nail on the head.

And I usually find that if a child stands up to a bully that child will then be accused of bullying or told off by staff for being a nuisance so they have no chance to learn those skills - they can see that if they actually put parents' suggestions about dealing with things politely but firmly, they will be chastised sometimes very aggressively by the nearest adult.

oh stealth

your story reminds me of my ex. He was bullied for years in primary and then secondary. He had verbal abuse, was spat at, had studded football boots smashed off his head, beaten up and was ostracised by his class.

One day at the age of 13 he snapped and grabbed this lad, pushed him over the bannisters on the school stairs and held him there, dangling until teachers intervened.

He was instantly expelled, took him six months to be referred to a behavioural unit but by then it was too late. He is dyslexic/ adhd and probably asd anyway but his education was none existant and left school way behind and never caught up.

The bully got away with it. Ironically they are on nodding terms now 17 years later but its too late.

YANBU
We moved DS to a new primary school due to very poor handling of bullying at his old school. Bumped into a parent from the old school this week - 18 months on the bully is just causing problems for different kids now. DS now trots into new school smiling not the tears every morning we were having. These state schools are only 2 miles apart but the ethos is completely different. It is down to willingness by a HT to accept it happens but act swiftly and decisively when it does.

wet august, aufdeutschbitte and pro-performer, I am so sorry for what some children have to go through, what some teachers have to go through and why the system cannot be changed. It is not good enough and what is happening to our young people cannot be positive for society as a whole Why do head teachers go along with it? Why do they not speak out and start getting the worst of the problems dealth with?

a) They prefer an easy life
b) The parents of bullies are scary

c) it would cause additional expense for their employers, the LA, to deal with and they value their career
d) no comebacks if you just ignore the victim -unless they grow up and sue you

I don't necessarily agree that it will cost the LA more, WetAugust. I have seen heads who are capable of dealing with bullies in their school. They just have to want to. And their staff have to want to as well.

However, on d), maybe there's a growth area for solicitors right there.