Eight different Maths teachers in two years! Furious!!!!

[Solo2]

AIBU to feel so angry? DTs, aged 10, have now had 8 different Maths teachers in 2 years and have been demoted twice, landing finally in the bottom set. I know this shouldn't matter but I want to add that this is an academically selective fee-paying school and I'm struggling to keep going financially, as a single mum solely reliant on my self-employed income for the fees. So I'm paying for what seems to be amounting to massive staff turnover and a direct adverse effect on my DCs.

In Yr 4, they had 2 different teachers as one left after one term. Fair enough. In Year 5, where the children are set for Maths, they started out in the second from the top group. That teacher used sarcasm and public humliation to 'spur them on' - and it didn't work. DTs lost more and more confidence and in the final term, got demoted down one set.

In that last term, the teacher was on sick leave, so they started out with a fill in teacher who was lovely. Then the proper teacher returned and taught them for that last term and the first term of this year. He also used public humiliation and sarcasm and was v old-school strict and DTs found it impossible to speak up in class, ask when they didn't understand and were then berated for 'not joining in'.

Main Maths exam happened at the end of last term and DTS didn't do v well at all. They were demoted again - this time to the bottom set. I argued for one of them being kept in the other set, as he was gutted about another demotion and spent the whole Xmas hol. crying on and off and not wanting to return to school because of feeling so embarassed.

However, the new set teacher was someone they both knew well and liked and I met with her and had a long discussion about how to settle them in, help them improve, reduce anxiety and not feel embarassed. The school kept telling me that this was going to be a really good thing for the twins.

When term started, we found out that owing to lots more staff turnover - for a variety of reasons - that Maths teacher would no longer be teaching that set. A supply teacher took her place - and I was v concerned and angry (thread on the Education forum about this). But when I asked to go in and meet that teacher and discuss things with her, I was told to wait a few weeks until my DCs had settled in. The supply teacher was knew the school well and they her and so I hoped it would somehow work out.

Today, with no warning at all, we get informed that this supply teacher isn't going to stay for the last 2 terms at all and is leaving next week. A brand new (to the school and also I think to teaching) teacher is starting.

Once again, my sons will need to get used to a new teacher, with new methods, a different personality and who doesn't know the school - or my DCs - at all. I can't imagine that she'll be totally on top of everything from the start but there are only 1 and a bit terms left at all now.

DTs start at the senior part of the school In September - a school renowned for it's Maths and Science geniuses - which doesn't at all describe my sons. I'm never going to expect them to be near the top but I do think they could be nearer the average for their cohort and that the staff tunrover has played a key part in their demotions, loss of confidence and decline.

AIBU to feel furious tonight, especially at the way in which the school inform us about these things and mislead us too?

I would not allow the reputation of a school to cloud the reality of the quality of education. Its poor. Their headline pass rate may be the dogs bollocks, but its not working for your kids. The fact that they have dropped two sub levels....

I also think that persevering in a school where children are promoted and demoted into their sets is placing huge pressure on the kids to perform - imagine the fear and anxiety at moving down a set.

Plus youve got bullying teachers and bullying pupils....why are they still there? Headline brilliance counts for nothing when the reality of education is failing your DTs.

My DD is a bog standard catholic comp. and is predicted A*s across the board. From here she will go to a state 6th form - one of the top in the country on our doorstep.

She was the only one in her junior school to go there and she had to develop new friendships very quickly. She has thrived in their supportive and challenging environment. She has dear friends that we love, decent hard working kids from normal families.

With a loving supportive mum and a decent set of teachers, your DTs will thrive where ever you send them - if they are given the freedom to think and not have to perform under pressure of being demoted and humiliated.

OP are there any other children in the year who have been moved down in maths alongside your twins? Are there other children who are struggling?
Personally I think that 8 different teachers in such a short space of time must have had a negative impact on your Dcs, no doubt. What percentage of children are in the bottom set?

Since you do not want to change schools, then I think marriedinwhite has given you a great idea of what the school could do to help, get the group of struggling kids together for extra catchup lessons on Saturday. My worry is that you don't want to upset the head and so will not seek help. Have you visited the seniors school to ensure it is the right fit for your twins? If it is a specialist maths and science school, precisely the subject your Dcs struggle with, then surely they are doomed to belong to the bottom set throughout? I would be concerned about their self-esteem. Actually, I would go as far as Moving house if I thought the options near you are not good.

Hello Solo.

We have met before on another board about your DTs. I'm sure on that board your justification for keeping them there was that although one of your children didn't seem suited to the school on an emotional level, academically they were doing well. (If I've got that last bit wrong I apologise). I'm pretty sure there was something else too, but I can't remember.

The problem is that they aren't doing well.

You're going to get exactly the same replies on this thread as you did on the other.

Keep them at the school or take them out.

There really isn't a third option.

Yes you can speak with the school about it - but that hasn't gone well before has it? The HT is hardly receptive to parental involvement. It might have a high staff turnoever because the HT behaves as badly with the staff as he does with the pupils.

Moving groups isn't about being demoted or promoted and that is a really unhelpful way of looking at it. Although I can understand that if he realises his friends are 'progressing' and he now looks around and sees himself surrounded by the children that he sees as being less able than him, it is going to upset him. As distasteful as that might be for adults to read, it is how children think.

Solo, you have posted soooo many threads about your dt's school and so many people have told you that it is wrong for them, I honestly don't know why you keep coming back to be told the same thing. The school sounds, frankly, horrible. Your children are not happy there, you are permanently stressed-out, angry and struggling financially to keep them there. You use worrying phrases in your posts like "developmentally subnormal" and "demoted to bottom set". I don't know where these phrases come from, you or the school but you can bet your children are picking up on the stress around them and are affected by it. You seem obsessed with the fact that this is academically the top school in the area - so what? If is is not right for your children, why do you keep them there? Does it really matter is they are not doing A-level standard maths for fun in their spare time? Really?

You say that one of your twins would not survive long elsewhere because of "professorish"/possibly Aspergerish traits. Have you looked at other possible schools- perhaps even state schools - so that you know that this would actually be true locally, not just in a general sense?

The reason I am asking is that I know a couple of friends of my dcs who have similar traits and who have actually done very well in local state schools. both socially and academically. Wouldn't happen everywhere, it's obviously very much about those particular schools, but I wouldn't write a school off just because it is in one particular category.

After all, the school you chose did seem to tick all the boxes and your twins are still not happy.

I agree that there are lots of things you list that would not make me happy: it seems as if the high staff turnover might be to do with the general atmosphere in the school, your dcs are made to feel that moving sets is a demotion, there seems to be no support or advice around moving sets, and at least one teacher sounds genuinely unpleasant.

I would be looking around.

Are you sure that maybe your DT's just aren't numerically gifted? Without being harsh.

That was my thinking. Being at the best, and most selective school academically is very important if you have academically high flying children...if they're not then surely it shouldn't be the deciding factor? Maybe they just aren't suited for it.

If the school is selective and takes all the high achieving children in the area, then they will get good results because of the students not the teachers. Just because the school results are good it doesn't mean all students achieve good results.

Take them out.

Put them in a state school and get them tutors in the subject/s they're having problems in.

Why pay all that money for a crap service?

You have been given the same advice many, many times over lots of threads. Take your children elsewhere. The school may have a good reputation but it is not serving your needs. You need to either listen to the advice and make the changed or move on and accept the situation.

Btw I have taught children who have mOved from top public schools into state and got better at state because they didn't fit in their old school. Schools sometimes get good reputation and extremely high results because they get rid of anyone who wil pull them down.

DT's are able enough to have been offered a place at the senior school and to be deemed academcially fit for the school. DT2 is in the G & T programme for English and doing v well at everything else - except maths and sciences, where he struggles - but not enough for the school to think he'll have a major problem coping.

DT1 is doing 'well enough' but not excelling at anything (other than drama possibly!) but again the school think he's well able to fit with the work in the seniors. The feedback has always been, "got the potential because he often makes intelligent comments but hasn't go the focus/ hasn't reached his potential yet". So I'm not being given the impression that he's unable to keep up and even now both are in the bottom maths group, they're, I think, at the top of that group. So I'd say that in maths, they're top of the bottom quarter, in other subjects, DT1 is around average or just under and DT2 is excelling in anything arts/literacy/humanities related.

I completely agree that neither of them is good at maths. I've always struggled with it too. However, again, the school seem to think that they're able enough (given the school is working about 2 years ahead of the national curriculum in maths).

The impression the school has given me is that they're bright - but not genius level - at a school that fits those from bright to genius level.

I can only repeat that they'll soon be leaving this junior school and moving to a completely separate seniors where so far I've not been able to see how they'll get on there - and won't know till they start.

I'm not happy with this junior school - in many ways and in some ways, there are good parts too but of course on MN I focus on the things that infuriate and worry me.

So that's why I post - to release the emotion and find support and ideas from you all. I feel validated to be furious about the maths teacher turnover rate and the way the school makes the DCs feel 'demoted' and humiliated'. Sometimes I wonder if I'm just being hypersensitive and soft but clearly, from MN feedback - I'm not. So that's v helpful.

I'm just going to say that we specifically didn't send dd to a London High School because we thought she would be bright in a school that had a lot of geniuses and we didn't think it would help her self esteem.

She is at a gentle mid league school - fizzing at the top, gaining confidence and very happy. She too is not a mainstream child although still completely normal.