to automatically ignore value brands

[somedayma]

I probably am BU because I could definitely do with saving some cash on my grocery shop. But I've had some v bad tesco value items in the past (soft rice crispies, plasticky tasting chocolate etc).

I was looking at value chicken breasts today, thinking 'they're probably going to taste the same as the other slightly more expensive ones once it's in a stew anyway'. but for some reason bought the more expensive ones anyway.

Value ready salted crisps taste the same as branded ones. Just FYI

I'd like to add that even though I buy a lot of value stuff it doesn't mean you necessarily live on chicken nuggets and instant mash.

I rarely buy processed food, make most things from scratch but just from the cheaper ingredients.

foof - i think organic & value are quite similar in that you dont care if the e.g. apple has a mark on the skin if it tastes good, it is good enough!

foof I totally agree with you unlike the assumption earlier my diet was crap and processed because I eat value chicken, and its anything but. In fact my DH thinks I should use more processed stuff through the week as I dont get in from work till 630pm and then stand and cook dinner for everyone. But I dont mind, as he does all the housework

I think you have to put the children first tbh and if and when the budget stretches then you can buy organic. I will occasionally buy very good meat from the butcher and think it's essential for joints of beef and steak, leg of lamb, good chops, etc., but we have just finished a delicious £4.00 chicken from Sainsbury's and I have had many many disappointing corn fed and organic birds over the years. The same goes for Turkey - have had bronze birds that were nothing special - had a Waitrose one, one up from essential, this year and it was divine.

I know about MRM and the power of the processed food lobby. And I imagine many of the people on this thread know that too. I guess that most of them know how to cook and eat healthily.

This is a principally a thread about saving money with a debate on ethics and animal welfare.

So: how can you eat organically and cheaply? That's not to touch the idea that organic food is extremely inefficient and wasteful and is a luxury for rich people in the West. That's rich people, not everyone in the West.

GM crops aren't organic. So how would you propose to develop crops that are disease and pest-resistant that may not end up in your veg-box but would mean life or death to consumers, farmers and economies in the Third World. Maybe they can carry on growing french beans and roses for us.

You talk about eating fish. Is that wild fish? In which case it's inorganic and is wasteful in terms of undesirable or over-quota fish that's thrown back dead.

Or is it farmed fish which is extremely environmentally damaging? It's also fatty, pappy and flavourless.

You use a dishwasher. I struggle to see how two people generate enough washing up to need one. But that's by the by.

I don't have one but I'm not bothered about the environmental and power costs of using one and presumably, neither are you.

sainburys value houmous is lovely

nearly, but not quite as nice as tescos (non value) houmous which is nicer than any other brand

i buy value tinned tomatoes too unless others are on special offer

i love aldi the hams and cheese are great value adn teh fish is very good too

I forgot to mention. Sainsbury's spray stain remover is brilliant and only 83p. Just as good as Vanish which is really expensive.

limitedperiodonly

So: how can you eat organically and cheaply? That's not to touch the idea that organic food is extremely inefficient and wasteful and is a luxury for rich people in the West. That's rich people, not everyone in the West.

----> eat more veg less meat, cook from scratch

GM crops aren't organic. So how would you propose to develop crops that are disease and pest-resistant that may not end up in your veg-box but would mean life or death to consumers, farmers and economies in the Third World. Maybe they can carry on growing french beans and roses for us.

----> i think GM crops will make companies richer not feed the world's poor. medicine has has massive investment from companies, yet in the third world people die for lack of basic medicine. why would food follow a different path?

You talk about eating fish. Is that wild fish? In which case it's inorganic and is wasteful in terms of undesirable or over-quota fish that's thrown back dead.

Or is it farmed fish which is extremely environmentally damaging? It's also fatty, pappy and flavourless.

-> its line caught, by small boats, only species that are not considered overfished. once or twice per week.

You use a dishwasher. I struggle to see how two people generate enough washing up to need one. But that's by the by.

I don't have one but I'm not bothered about the environmental and power costs of using one and presumably, neither are you.

----> our electricity is renewable. i also track our electricity usage & its v low compared with most similar households.

-> TBH if you are concerned about having enough food to feed the world, you are probably best off looking at your own high meat protein diet....& if your not, i am slightly confused why you are asking me about my responsibilities?

I've not followed the argument in full, but just as a side note, you could perfectly well grow transgenic crops using organic methodologies, so it isn't really correct to say that GM crops aren't organic, unless you use a particular definition of the word organic. In fact, I know of some organic farmers and plant scientists who would like precisely that - their idea is that you could breed plants with increased disease tolerance and better use of nutrients and water, which would allow you to decrease your pesticide use and use of fertilisers.

Well, we don't eat cheaply and we don't eat organically because I am not convinced of all the arguments for all of the items. We eat well and healthily and I try to make sensible choices. Feeding two adults and two teenagers I think my weekly bill is close to £200 pw. I buy what we want and what I think we need and don't have to live on a tight budget. I do buy things like basics butter, own brand beans and tomatoes and if I was extravagant I could easily spend far more. We usually have mince once a week, chicken once a week and fish once a week with a quick dinner and perhaps some good chops or smoked salmon sometimes.

I only use the tumble dryer at weekends in the winter and try to dry daily on a clothes horse in the spare room.

BUT - we do have a GWiz and photovoltaic panels on the roof - so there.

People often parallel the potential of transgenic food crops with drugs. One of the most interesting potential uses of transgenic crops is to grow medicines for people, both in the West (e.g. growing insulin) and across Africa and Asia (e.g. growing anti-malarial drugs). The interesting idea is that countries will be able to grow their own supplies of drugs in large greenhouses or fields, with, in the case of malaria at least, a partnership between a charitable foundation and an Asian seed distribution company.
Of course, actually far more people die of malnutrition and starvation than of malaria, but it doesn't make the work of the anti-malarial researchers any less valuable.

TheRealTillyMinto I asked because you seemed happy to tell other people how good your life is and how sound your choices are but it seemed based on thoughts and feelings rather than anything concrete and I wanted you to expand.

There's no need for you to respond to any if this. Some of it's addressed to you because I'm answering your points. I'm not insisting on a reply.

I'm just curious and would like to make my points in the hope that someone could answer them. Whether they confirm or debunk them doesn't matter as much to me as being able to reach a better understanding.

I wonder where the evidence is that organic food is nutritionally superior to non-organic or if that superiority justifies the difference in price?

I believe people should be getting more fruit and vegetables down them. I am concerned that people on limited budgets may restrict their intake in order to spend money on expensive organic produce in the belief that it is 'better' for them. I'm offended that people may eat the 'bad' stuff and feel guilty or worried.

I'm also concerned at the prevalent suggestion that non-organic produce is somehow harmful.

I also like to eat stews and pulses but sometimes wonder how much it's costing me in fuel to cook them into submission as opposed to something cheap that can be cooked quickly. That's not a worry for me but it might worry someone on a tight budget.

I asked about fish because there are serious environmental implications in fishing. Your research is excellent. I eat rod and line-caught fish and the much more wasteful trawled wild fish. That's my choice. It is expensive, that's ours.

I'm curious when people choose not to eat meat with legs but make an exception for fish. If it's for ethical reasons I struggle to understand it. If it's for health reasons I don't necessarily agree, but it's their decision.

I accept that the developers of GM seed are in it to make money rather than help people.

But I don't accept that GM is not an answer to hunger. Just because technology companies make selfish decisions it's not impossible to make them change or at least try. I also worry that Westerners' concerns about GM may dissuade Third World farmers from using it in case they cannot sell their crops to us.

Similarly I worry that Third World hunger is caused not by plant diseases and pests but by the fact the the West insists they use their land growing crops that we want to eat and use rather than things that could feed their own country.

I thoroughly object to the popular view that GM is harmful to health and the environment. To me that's jumbled-up with all the Bad Science-type stuff about food, nutrition, food scares, drugs and vaccinations.

Please don't think I mean that you hold these views.

I fully accept that meat production is extremely wasteful. But I like to eat meat, as many people, do. I don't accept that precludes us from an opinion on world hunger, although, you're right, it has to be seen through that prism.

If you're happy with the cost of your dishwasher, that's your decision. As I said, I don't generate enough washing to justify the cost and room in my kitchen.

So, you make your choices, other people make theirs.

thanks grendel not spoddy at all. I wasn't aware that GM is compatible with Soil Association status. Maybe it is or some other organic certification. If so, it would be great.

limitedperiodonly i thought the thread was about posters talking about their shopping.....so i talked about mine. i am trained in science but why di d i focus on the fact i am happy with what i do?

because i dont think you have to be a hair shirted misery guts to uses your shopping power to do what you think is right. i dont think what i do is perfect but its good enough... for now.

I wonder where the evidence is that organic food is nutritionally superior to non-organic or if that superiority justifies the difference in price?
-> i know its not been air freighted
-> i know its fair trade
-> high animal welfare
-> IME good quality & tastey
-> less waste as its not 'perfect' veg
-> No GM

-> i was veggie when a child as i didnt like eating fluffy animals. not the most rational of arguments but i was 11! so no reason other than habit. i would eat high welfare meat but the smell of cooked meat does not appeal.

-> i dont like GM because it commericalises food and whatever stop gap it gives us in population size will be temporary. we have lived in v fortunate times & i think it makes us naive. Terminator seeds (dont reproduce) are about increasing third world farmers dependence on commerce and is likely to lead to debt for many.

-> if you analyse at your CO2 contribution (if you are interested) you realise you can fuss over somethings & they dont really dont make much difference while other things are v vvvvv bad.

i am from the camp of 'there is no perfect science to being green, but you might as well make it fun doing what you can.'

(and i would eat just the same but from the value range if my budget required it)

Thanks for taking the time to answer therealtillyminto. I do mean that.

I love Aldis meat and veg, always a good selection and a good price.

For anyone interested, in the Mirror on Thursday is a £5 voucher off a £30 spend- might be good for someone trying Aldi for first time but travelling- may help towards petrol costs!!

limitedperiodonly no problem - it was interesting to think about!

Thanks for the headsup there mumnotmachine :)

Sorry, just to add my 2 cents. At Christmas my MIL offered to make some sandwiches. Great! And then she pulls out the generic cheese from Morrison's....
It didn't even taste like cheese or cheddar, even though it was orange colored.
Never again!

Sainsbury's Basics sweets.

My favourites are toffees and wine gums but everything else looks good for about 25p for 200g

Lucygoose, plastic cheese isn't very nice although I find the packs of Tesco value grated "cheese" good for pizza topping or a sprinkle on top of tomato pasta I wouldn't use them for things supposed to actually taste of cheese though!

Incidentally I have read on Money Saving Expert that it's usually better value to buy value cheese [if you have to] grated than in a block as you get more for your money and also it's usually cheaper £ for lb to buy your cheese and cold meats from the deli counter [which is something I usually glide by without looking as I assume it's all expensive stuff].

I am challenging myself to do all of my shopping in Aldi and Lidl next month. Except for bread which I will do my usual thing of stocking up in Asda on 10p reduced items once a week.