Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that Channel 4 couldnt have painted Gypsys in a much worse light if they had tried?

50 replies

SaggyOldClothCatPuss · 19/01/2012 22:47

Cock fighting, coursing, fighting, beating children......

OP posts:
edam · 19/01/2012 23:38

interesting to see a serious documentary about Gypsies but good grief, it's very sad as an outsider to see little children made to fight like that. And that poor man who was attacked with a machete - horrifying. The film maker made it almost beautiful, which was disturbing.

maypole1 · 19/01/2012 23:41

The children could hardly read and what are they worried about fighting

The Doherty guy might have thought the reason why he fights so much because he hasn't had a good education

I just can't see how any ne can condone making children fight and ifp they cry they get drowned in water

To me the killing of animals by dogs looked dodgy it looked like they were trespassing on somones land

I don't care if adult men wAnt to fight but encourgeing children to fight with the threat of death or a beating for yourself hanging over yur head is not teaching a sport in my view

edam · 19/01/2012 23:44

according to QI, bare knuckle boxing may well be safer than boxing with gloves, because gloves allow you to inflict brain damage - you can't punch someone so hard with bare fists because you'd break your hand. (Although there was a story in the film about someone's Granddad who'd broken his hand punching someone else.)

maypole1 · 19/01/2012 23:46

If I stood in the middle of the street and encouraged to 7 year olds to fight or be beaten by me I wonder if I could clamp traditions or would the police and ss remove my child

MixedBerries · 19/01/2012 23:47

Are they even Gypsies? I may be wrong but I thought that term applied to Romanies. Those in the TV programme are Irish Travellers with a very different history and culture to the Romany altogether.

nowadoubledee · 19/01/2012 23:52

I'm not condoning teaching children how to fight, I found it hard to watch.

Spin forward a few years, when the daughters are well educated & hold position & status both within their community & the wider community, perhaps their fathers honour will be attained more from their children's achievements than from fighting.

WorraLiberty · 19/01/2012 23:52

It's not a myth here Trois it's a fact

And a fact that's quite recent as I've not long done a Governor training course on that very subject.

Perhaps it depends on the Borough?

Blu · 19/01/2012 23:54

Killing animals for food? If you are someone who regularly buys supermarket meat, intensively reared animals which then spend hours being crammed into crates to an abbatoir, I think it's a bit rich to criticise someone for using an age old quick hunting technique to kill food for supper. And make sure you never cook game.

And what about the love and pride between father and son? Real love. I have seen cowed scared abused children, and whereas it is impossible, and wouldn't be right, to condone the rough justice, that boy knows he's loved. By a father who supports and agrees with a greater level of education than he had.

It wasn't the swift bare knuckle fighting that did for him - whatever you feel about concensual fights between adult men, it wasn't, at least, gang warfare. When he said it was done with, he meant it. The machete attack, on the other hand, was completely outside that 'code'.

There was violence shown, but many other things besides.

People seem to see what they want or expect to see.

We met a traveller family on a campsite - the kids all sparrred with each other all the time. Including the girls. Them to my horror, DS was invited to join. But an older boy was really responsible, would not allow two inexperienced boxers to spar together because they wouldn't have enough control, taught DS and his friends how to do some moves, but made sure that no one actually got hit.

And as Troisgarcons said, all the kids had social skills and politeness that would have out many a typical teen to shame. And the older kids, boys and girls, looked after all the younger ones, plus new little campsite friends with care, sensitivity and humour.

GoingForGoalWeight · 19/01/2012 23:56

It is horrific child abuse in all aspects (aside from sexual).

SaggyOldClothCatPuss · 19/01/2012 23:59

I have nothing against killing animals for food. Im not even against hunting with dogs. The point is, it is illegal. coursing is illegal.

OP posts:
Blu · 20/01/2012 00:03

It is not illegal to course rabbits. (or rats)
I'm not sure if they intended to get the Muntjac deer, but they are a complete menace anyway.

nowadoubledee · 20/01/2012 00:03

is that what they did though? It wasn't clear that that was what had happened

Blu · 20/01/2012 00:05

The lurcher type dog caught a rabbit, and then later the brown dog caught a muntjac deer. In both cases for food rather than sport. Unlike, for example, fox hunting.

SaggyOldClothCatPuss · 20/01/2012 00:09

Um, I think you will find that that was a hare. Which is illegal.
Why is everyone making excuses? They were shown doing things which were illegal. It makes no odds who they are surely?

OP posts:
GoingForGoalWeight · 20/01/2012 00:11

I knew it was a hare and I'm a city girl.

Blu · 20/01/2012 00:12

I don't think it was a hare. Hares are much bigger and darker brown.
If it was a hare, it was illegal, but it looked like a rabbit to me.
So not illegal.

nowadoubledee · 20/01/2012 00:12

I thought they shot a rabbit & caught a deer

Blu · 20/01/2012 00:13

They caught the rabbit-looking thing close to a hedge on the camping field - unllikely that a hare would be there, they are much shyer.

nowadoubledee · 20/01/2012 00:13

it had hooves...I'm going with the view that it was a deer

foglike · 20/01/2012 00:14

Why don't we all just enjoy our cultural differences and point at each other screaming "We're not racists"?

Or we can tell the truth in this case and say that gypsy culture can be cruel harsh and barbaric.

Blu · 20/01/2012 00:15

oh, yes, I think you're right, the rabbit was shot. Not illegal either.
As long as the gun is legal.

edam · 20/01/2012 00:15

It was a rabbit. My ex-BIL goes rabbiting - perfectly legal (he's an IT consultant, FWIW, but also Italian, so cares about the provenance of his food).

edam · 20/01/2012 00:17

(I'm a vegetarian, btw, so not keen on rabbiting - but at least it's less hypocritical than buying cheap meat from supermarkets and ignoring the way the animal was treated.)

Blu · 20/01/2012 00:19

I am sure Gypsy culture can be cruel and barbaric. And other things as well.
I don't view killing either the rabbit or the muntjac deer as especially cruel or barbaric, as it happens.

I think hacking people about with machetes is unspeakably barbaric and disgraceful - but that isn't limited to traveller or gypsy culture - in fact seemed counter to the 'fair fight and when it's done it's done' system.

SaggyOldClothCatPuss · 20/01/2012 00:28

It was a hare. It had black ear tips. The shot a rabbit, and the dog got a deer, then a hare.

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page