To punish my sons attention seeking SCREAMING?

[WhiteTrash]

ArraaahhhARGH!! I feel like screaming!

My 5 year old is a lovely child. BUT hes being a little bugger just recently. His baby brother is 8 months old, the adore one another. DS1 is absolutely lovely to his brother.

The last 3-4 weeks (since he broke up from school hes been back 1.5 weeks) hes started attention seeking fake crying. Its loud, its dry eyed, its often monotone, it can continue for 2 hours and can and cannot continue into a full blown tantrum.

It frightens the baby, I HAVE to tend to him when it happens as hes scared. DC1 will refuse to coverse during these times so I simply say "Youre frightening DC2, so I'll have to comfort him now. I'll talk to you when you stop crying."
Trying to talk to him about equals him 'crying' harder. These episodes occur over the smallest things, sometimes over nothing.

He gets a LOT of one on one attention. More so with his Dad (we've noticed the more alone time he has with his Dad the worse his behaviour is. We have no idea why but we plod along regardless.) I often ask him to do stuff with me, just us but nearly always says no he'd rather do it with his Dad. But he does spend time with me too.

DC2 is in my bed Dp on the sofa. Once a week or so DC1 will wake, plod down stairs and join his dad. His dad will try and persuade him to go back to bed, he refuses, DP relents. They sleep.

Only last night he started screaming. It was 1am. It lasted an hour, it woke the baby who was scared out his witts despite being upstaira behind a closed door with me. I was LIVID. Literally never been so cross. He KNOWS it effects his brother thus me which is why he did it.

Id NEVER dare do something like that as a child.
He lost all his lego for a week but doesnt seem to give a crap.

AIBU to be considering further punishment?! I know its a no-no to punish twice but this had got to stop! Reward charts have never worked with him. Although we have a marble jar for good behaviour. It does not work.

I totally agree crazygracie. Thanks all.

I am going to really try and give him one to one attention myself, and be more understanding.

YABU to have it go on for 2 hrs imo! If dd did this for no reason I would ignore for about 10 secs then tell her I was counting to 5 and if the noise hadn't stopped there would be x consequence. You are far more patient than I.

Oh and dd has told me she 'can't' stop whinging before now. But when I tell her that, if she doesn't, the tv will be going off because she can't hear it/she will have to go to bed because I assume she's tired she finds that she can stop after all.

Secret, honest to God I have tried so, so many things to get him to stop. I dont let it go on out of choice.

Ive taken toys away, Ive stopped TV, stopped plans (to do something), ignored it, carried on talking acting normal like its not happening, leaving the room, turning the radio up, talking to him, making a joke to laugh it off with him, putting him in his room.

Not all these at the same time of course. This is over 2 years, because it happens on and off.

But this time round I didnt bother with any of the above and simply said I'll talk to him when he stops crying a until then theres nothing I can do to help him.

The poor chap is jealous and too nice to do anything to hurt the cause of his jealousy.
All those things you have tried are his reward for behaving badly. I know they don't look much like a reward to you, but they are to him.

His little brother gets to sleep with you, when he screams, you say 'don't upset your little brother', sometimes DH lets DS sleep with him, you can see why he would think that was his 'right'.

You are quite right to try to spend more one-to-one time with him. I am afraid I think punishment is the wrong response and might escalate the problem, whereas one-to-one time might help him to articulate and then to deal with his troubles.

good luckwhite, you are doing the best you can for both your boys.

and this too shall pass

White I think you are on the right track in giving DS more 1-1 time.

As someone else said he sees his DS sleeping with you and getting attention when he cries, so he is jealous. I think you need to talk to your DS when he's in a very happy mood about why his his baby brother is allowed to do this i.e. because he is a baby and can't talk he can only tell you he is sad by crying, where as big people can talk.
Maybe also tell him that when he was a baby he also slept in bed with mummy even if this is a lie. When he was x age he went into his big bed and his little brother will do this one day too.

Maybe show DS photos of himself at the same age as DS2 is, and talk about how much help/attention he needed from Mum and Dad.

What does he do when you take things? With dd I used to give her til the count of 5 then I would be taking something like a toy she really likes, then if she didn't stop I would warn her that I was going to count to 5 again and if she didn't try and calm down there would be no tv for the rest of the day etc and I would continue along those lines until she stopped. Obviously in the early days I had to take a few things - now days it is rare I have to do more than a warning. It only worked because it was things she was really bothered about I think and I lways followed through. I put it to her as a choice - she can do as she's told and keep nice things or she can not and lose them.
It might sound harsh but I'm actually quite laid back. The only rule I have is that you have to do as you are told and that includes when I tell her she needs to shut the hell up! (said in a much nicer way of course ).

DD does have a younger brother and obviously there was some jealousy issues there or at least the potential for some. She sometimes felt that ds was getting a better deal by being a baby. I found that emphasising a lot of the things that were better about being bigger helped with this. Ie saying you can do this because you're a big girl and ds can't do that because he's too little etc.

A very wise person once told me that the more they push you away, the more then want you. So, I'd cut down on 1:1 time with his Dad and try and spend more time with him yourself. I know it's hard when you have a baby (have been there) but it sounds like he's really confused and needs just you at the moment.

Thanks norks and quick.

Secret, what does he do when I take things - he doesnt give a crap. He doesnt care that he has no lego left. Stopping tv doesnt work he doesnt watch much its not his thing. Take a toy away he'll 'meh' and play with another.

I feel really fucking guilty now. I started this thread thinking "They'll all say he's jealous but hes not! After I explain, they'll see!"

But he is isnt he. It's ME that didnt see.

I totally agree Betty.

What does he care about? Sweets? Computer? Pocket money? There must be something.

Obviously it is a time of upheaval for him and spending a lot of time with him and reassuring him will help BUT imo that has to be done in conjunction with upholding acceptable behaviour in whatever way works for you.

When DD was tiny and jealous I tried to remember when I was a teenager and had boyfriends or friends who seemed to not like me any more :(
Embarrasing to remember, but I would push and hassle and send them presents and ring them and tell them how brilliant they were all to get them to like me.
It didn't work, but it didn't stop me trying. I don't know if that makes sense, but it did help me to put myself in her little tiny foot-stamping shoes

Humans are born determined, 5 year old boys doubly so. You say he is a lovely boy and you are clearly a caring mummy, so you WILL get through this.

White don't feel guilty at all!

My 2 DDs are much older now and I have learnt along the way that the fact you are thinking about their behaviour and trying to solve things without murdering them is a very positive thing.

Also he started this screaming thing before you had DS2 didn't he? Jealousy is very very common and he is just showing how he feels in the way he knows how. Don't be hard on yourself.

My 5yo is very like this- her triggers are tiredness, hunger, anxiety and perceived lack of attention.

We ignore wherever humanly possible (sometimes have to remove her for the sake of her little sibling who gets very distressed by the noise, or for safety- sometimes she flails around in the bathroom or kitchen, and she could seriously hurt herself).

I do have to sometimes just put her into another room and close the door (she will hammer on it and scream, but doesn't like being ignored, because let's face it, this is all about getting attention).

She is much better at stopping herself now she's older, I think she has more impulse control. We always hug afterwards, and we reiterate that tantrumming does not get what we want (or indeed get us anything). We always try to remain completely calm and not get ruffled by it- sometimes very difficult, but she seems to snap out of it quicker that way.

Good luck- it can be hard to find time properly for 1-1 with your older child sometimes I know- I have always tried to make the most of younger sibling's naps to do fun things with her, things that he's not big enough to do yet, so special to her, and she does like that a lot.

An 8mo sibling for your son is still quite a recent event really, and he just needs time to understand and adapt, just keep reassuring and loving him.

Thanks all so much.

Ive just text DP (hes at a friends house this evening) to say I want to make the room so DC1 can sleep in it too when he needs. I know, the rod gets bigger! But I dont mind, DP goes undisturbed and DC2 doesnt feel pushed out (he was in my bed until I was about 6-7 months pregnant for some of the night once a week).

And we're going to make some one to one time for him and me.

Thank you for making me see this!!

I agree with the flicking him with water to make him stop screaming. It will give him a shock to enable him to stop. My GM told me to do that one time (don't recall what it was for, might have been DM told me that her mother told her) and it really worked.

don't agree that there is something that he cares about enough to stop the screaming for. I have three DC. Taking away stuff/charts, etc worked for the older two, but nothing worked for the youngest. I have a cousin like that, too - youngest of 4, but didn't care about anything being taken away.

Also agree that you could try and spend a little more time with him on his own, being a big boy, helping you. He just needs to adjust to the change in circumstances.

I have a 4yo DD and 6mo DS and although she doesn't do this exact thing I can really recognise what you're saying.
DD clearly loves and is great with DS BUT she also at one and the same time is jealous of him. She keeps it in quite well mostly and because she's quite verbal she will express it with words which makes it easier for me. She will come out and say she misses time alone with me or she will role play being a baby herself to get me to carry her or cuddle her. A lot of other children I know do express things more in their behaviour though and it seems like your DS does that.
She has started waking at night because DS does, she often says she'd rather spend time with her dad (I think because she knows she can get him all to herself more easily). She hates it if DS and I do something (even go shopping!) whilst she's at school.
Things I've found helpful are 1:1 time with her and lots of cuddles, looking at her baby pics and baby book and talking about how she was as a baby, telling her how much I enjoy things like reading with her that DS can't do and praising all good behaviour.
I wonder if you could get him to do something more acceptable instead of the screaming when he's angry eg scribble/ punch a pillow. If he does scream say that you understand he's angry and needs to calm down and you will come back in 5mins. Then you come back and if still screaming ask if he needs more time to calm down. When he finally does then he gets a cuddle and if possible talk about it.
Also I found that DD has actually been a bit worse since DS is older. I thought when he was newborn would be hardest but now he's all smily and interactive he's actually more competition!
I also thought that the bigger age gap would make life easier and in some ways it does but it also has its own challenges.

ILoveJudgeJudy I wasn't saying it would necessarily work just an idea. I doubt anything works for all kids. I would just be wary of letting too much slide because there is a baby in the picture. He will only be confused when the op decides it's time to start disciplining again.

my dd1 has dyspraxia - she has tantrums only at home nothing works i.e shouting, naughty step

I'm sure it will pay off OP. It has taken me years to get my DC2 back on-side after having DC3, but we are finally there and he has forgiven me for having a baby (who he plays with really nicely now). It was really hard work, and heart breaking to realise that I had caused it by having another baby.

You sound like a lovely mum and he will be OK. Come back to this thread and let us all know how you get on .

What worked for me in improving my elder daughter's behaviour was to have regular "Mum and *" time when I took her out on her own for a treat. I think it made her feel less displaced by the younger one and stopped the reason for the bad behaviour.