to think that SOPA will be the death of mumsnet and any site which ordinary people can post on?

[threefeethighandrising]

The SOPA blackout yesterday - it was about piracy on the internet, right? Well yes and no.

If SOPA passes, then it will be illegal not only to host illegal content (e.g. songs) but to link to them. And it's not just in the US - they want to censor everyone in the world.

So, that wedding video of yours where you're dancing to your favourite tune for example? If you post a link to your youtube video of it on mumsnet, not only will you be committing copyright infringement, so will youtube, and mumsnet too for linking to it.

You, youtube and mumsnet will be committing a crime under US law
Under these new laws they will have the power to effectively switch off mumsnet, extradite and jail or fine you, the owners of mumsnet and youtube.

(If you think this won't happen, see this [[http://www.chad.co.uk/news/local/alfreton/bolsover_mum_calls_on_government_to_step_in_after_son_loses_extradition_battle_to_united_states_1_4151073 23 year old student extradited to US and facing up to 10 years because he made a website - legal under UK law - which ^linked( to material which was infringing copyright

[[http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2007/10/riaa-jury-finds/ Single mother fined $222,000 for downloading 24 songs).

The US government will see mumsnet as coming under US law - as mumsnet has a .com address, it's american as far as they're concerned.

If the website breaking their law is outside of the US, then they will still have the power to effectively shut down the site - even if what the site is doing is legal its own country. The law also prohibits the website owners from suing - e.g. for having their business destroyed - even if found innocent! (There's loads of room for abuse for commercial gain by rival companies here).

If passed what this will mean in practice is that it's just too risky to run websites which have user-generated content.

Youtube, Flickr, Facebook, Twitter are obvious examples, and sites like mumsnet too.

It will destroy the internet as we know it.

Why are they doing it? The sponsors of the bill include many large media companies. They basically want to turn the internet into a media channel, where they can broadcast to us. There's a huge amount of money at stake here for them.

It's not just that OldMumsy, I think that there is a nationwide belief that the Powers That Be are only ever doing things with our best interests at heart, as that is what we have been led to believe for decades if not for all time. They seem to have a 'mother knows best' mentality and as a rule the country/global community just go along with it because that is easiest.

The Nazi Germany analogy still works here, because when Hitler came into power (IIRC) Germany was in a terrible state thanks to WW1 and they were desperate for change and for positivity. He wandered in with his charisma and his promises and as a result had the whole of Germany on side, give or take. That, to me, is what America is doing.

I'm not comparing Obama to Hitler at all BTW, I just mean that they are taking advantage of a very confused and scared population atm, due to the economy and all sorts of other factors, and they are using things that they understand to be wrong, such as piracy, to act as a front to push through things that on a basic level are very wrong.

Or at least that is the take on it that I am slowly developing [new to politics and taking notice of the news emoticon]

And there's nothing you can do about it... unless you are a US citizen and write to your congressman/woman. I have dual citizenship and have emailed my representatives for all the good it'll do.

YY MoreBeta, did you see what happened on Twitter last week? Several MN Frothers got blocked (or deleted or whatever happens on Twitter) for tweeting about a particular MP. If they can do that already, I can't see how the SOPA thing won't be abused.

I think if people in this country were to write to their MP apply pressure so it was discussed in parliament and at a Europe wide level our governments could apply pressure to the US.
But heres probably no action that will have any impact. At the end of the day its big business that wants this and it has naff all to do with governments, they are just a tool for business.

CurlyBoy but we can do something about it. We can help raise awareness for a start. The anti-SOPA internet blackout and outcry was taken up globally, and the declared views of Congress members have changed in the last couple of days as a result from a majority for to a majority against.

At the end of the day its big business that wants this and it has naff all to do with governments, they are just a tool for business.

This and only this.

Even without SOPA/PIPA the US controls the internet

MoreBeta, www.order-order.com carries on in the same vein as Private Eye. Both very worthy enterprises IMHO.

TwllBach very true. People believe what they want to believe. Path of least resistance and forelock tugging to authority. Very sad.

Anyone heard of the recently passed National Defense Authorization Act?

Well it means people can be detained without trail by the US military on US soil, indefinitely and without representation or trail. Check out the link.

....and the UK is allowing UK subjects to be extradited to the US for fucking copyright infringements????

Sinister and Scary stuff imo.

winteriscoming,
They have nto actually taken down these sites, just the public versions of these sites. The insitutions intranet sites, and everything internally is working fine, it just means ordinary members of the public have been denied access to the public website versions. It has had no effect on the actual workings of the FBI etc.

NoWhereMum

Looks like the US should now be placed in the same category as any other country where human rights are violated.

And whatever happened to a real criminal wanted by the USA - Abu Hamza. Isn't he still in the UK fighting extradition?

I've just started hearing about a global protest being organised for March - not sure how wide spread or successful it'll be (it's doing the rounds of Live Journal and Tumblr at the moment - two sites that would definitely be gone should SOPA be passed as it is)

Black March

TwllBach - no I didnt hear about the frothers being deleted on Twitter but there are increasing instances of this kind of thing and I agree that SOPA type laws make it all the easier.

NoWhereMum - the NDA Act is indeed another worrying development being pushed along by the curent US administration. Arrest without evidence on the say so of informants, imprisonment without trial, close links between large corporations and politicians, censorship and closure of disenting media voices. The anologies with the past are far too close for comfort. This kind of thong is a drip drip 'boiling frog' issue that teh population does not notice until too late.

OldMumsy* - yes I agree www.order-order.com is a very regular place I visit on the interent and Guido is a very constant critic of both the mainstream media and politicians as well as a staunch libertarian defender of free speech on the internet.

I didn't see Ian Heslop at the Levenson inquiry but I heard he was very good and very off message. A very good thing he was too. Speaking truth to power is what we need more of not less of.

Hislop for PM I think!!

threefeethighandrising - The day anyone in Congress cares about what a foreigner thinks is the day I'll eat my own hair. Most of them don't even have passports. They'll only care if they are going to get reelected and if they have secured enough campaign funding from lobbyists. Any change in opinion they have had will be from that and not what a bunch of capitalist-hating foreigners think.

BTW, just in case it isn't clear, I'm insulting the US Congress and not picking a fight with you...

CurlyBoy I agree Congress don't give a stuff what we think, but you can help raise awareness amongst the American public, for example.

I sat up until 3 on the night of the SOPA blackout, asnwering everyone who tweeted "WTF is SOPA" with a link to .

I continued until I maxed my Twitter account (I didn't know there was a limit before ).

I'm sure it didn't make a massive difference, but better than taking the piss out of people who were at least asking, which seemed to be the general mood amongst some vocal tweeters. ("Are you dumb?" "Where have you been all day" = not very helpful comments).

And of course social change can happen by lots of people doing their little bit!

Just mentioning it as you said there's nothing we can do, and I recognise that feeling but actually there is. Most people are really in the dark about what's going on here, and we can help by raising awareness, through the wonderful, global medium that is the internet.

And don't worry, no offence taken ;)

A piece of good news just in!

A Washington Blig called The Hill is reporting that SOPA has been shelved until a consensus can be reached.

"GOP chairman shelves Stop Online Piracy Act
By Brendan Sasso - 01/20/12 10:20 AM ET

House Judiciary Committee Chairman Lamar Smith (R-Texas) announced on Friday that he will postpone consideration of his Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA) until there is wider agreement on the controversial legislation."

Read more on the blog link I posted above.

That's a relief. US sees sense! (not a headline one would see often, imo)

That's great news, thanks MoreBeta :)

The web blackout and related outcry seem to have done their job, brilliant :)

I know it's all over for the moment, but this link gives a really good explanation (love Khan Academy).

I have no doubt this is going to come back sooner or later, and I think we should all try to understand how the internet works. Also, he picks out particular clauses and explains them really well. Of particular interest is the one about come-back if you were erroneously taken down - it's about 10 mins in, just before the end.

www.howtogeek.com/103468/the-khan-academy-explains-sopa-and-pipa-video/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=200112

I agree Jux, just because this has been shelved for now doesn't mean it's all over.

The companies involved have spend mid-boggling amounts of money lobbying congress. As I see it, they've shown their hand, we know what they want, and I'd be very surprised if we don't see the same issues raise their heads again.

The other thing that stands out to me from this incident is the terrible reporting on mainstream media channels. I'd be interested to know if anyone did see some good reporting on this, but the BBC reports I saw focussed on the piracy angle and completely ignored the bigger issues that could affect us all. Very lazy journalism.

That video is great, yes :)