to think its not that benefits are too HIGH, its that the minimum / average wage is too LOW.

[MistyMountainHop]

inspired by a load of recent threads about benefits (which may or may not be bullshit a bit of a stretching of the truth) and lots of mnetters (and a lot of the general public) up in arms about people choosing to be on benefits rather than work and that benefits are too high

well i think that the average wage is too LOW and vastly disproportionate to the cost of living. when people can "earn" more for NOT going to work than they can working then something is badly wrong. and i have been on benefits (single parent) abou 5 years ago and its SHIT. me and dc were POOR. i certainly didnt have this fictitious daily-mail benefits lifestyle with lots of spare cash, luxuries etc. hell no. i had enough to cover my rent and bills with a bit of change to feed me and dc. but if i had have worked at that time i would have probably only managed to get a minimum wage job which would have been pretty much the same as what i was receiving anyway. so shoot me, i decided i didn't want to work because it just wasnt worth it. (disclaimer for any dm readers: i do work now and have done for a while and now married and dh works too so no benefits apart from a little bit of tcs)

i know people on min or very low wage get "topped up" with tax credits and all that shit etc but IMO there is something really wrong with the world when people can work full time and still need financial help from the government to pay their rent and bills.

so surely in the final analysis its not that benefits pay too much, its that employment pays too little?

i am not very good at getting my point across so i hope this makes sense! but this was just something me and my friends were having a drunken conversation about at the weekend. and thought i would put it to the aibu jury :o

i dont agree with vouchers etc. but the argument i have paid into the system does not generally stand up: until you earn over £26k pa, you are only paying via taxation for the services you use in the year.

I'm struggling to find a reliable mechanic.

Have you ever thought of becoming a mechanic yourself? That will prevent you becoming a burden on society.

I'm having trouble understanding my son's maths homework tonight.

Have you not considered training to become a maths teacher yourself? This might prevent you draining the earth's precious resources whilst you pootle about with barely-understood brackets of division.

I acknowledge that the cost of housing needs addressing.

But assuming someone is renting on benefits and getting HB, they could take a job and get a tax credit top up. Their HB benefit would be adjusted. The total income will be higher than being on IS/JSA.

As other people have mentioned, it's the increased work expenses such as childcare and travel that make them worse off

Childcare is partly dealt with by tax credits, but they still have to find the 30%. It isn't ideal. More schools should be encouraged to cover 8am-6pm. There must be TAs that would welcome a few extra hours a week.

No one seems to consider the travel costs. AFAIK, travel to and from work isn't an allowable expense or disregard for any calculations. You can't even get tax relief. Having an extra £20-£50 a week to pay out is going to affect decisions to take lower paid jobs.

{calm, calm}

Ok, Thanks for suggestions re childcare but I have to honestly say i'm not a kiddie person. I love my own of course but I struggle to cope with them at times .

My idea of hell!

Just thought it was a good idea as lots of mums do it as there are no childcare costs, you are your own boss and its easy to set up/train.

When I say no one seems to consider travel costs, I mean on an official/TC/government level.

I don't think it's that easy, molly. The Ofsted registration is compulsory and childminders are now required to follow the Early Years curriculum.

Agreed, Totem. Public transport costs are crazy in parts of England.

"I'm struggling to find a reliable mechanic.

Have you ever thought of becoming a mechanic yourself? That will prevent you becoming a burden on society."

linerunner If it was acceptable to say rotflmao on mn I would be at that comment. Obviously i'm not, honest guv.

Its not that difficult to set up though in comparison to a lot of other jobs I meant but was only suggestion. I just keep hearing of all these areas on here where there isnt adequate childcare and think there are so many gaps in provision for people to work (obviously not if you dont enjoy kids though!) here we have lots of childcare so not really any gaps if you want to set up new.

Its a good idea in theory molly but if you're not a huge kiddie fan (I am not), it isnt the best route to take

I have had a great idea!
Some of you who can't get work as can't find a childminder to cover the hours employers want could child mind for those hours.
Yes I know you would need to register.
Then some other frustrated benefit dependants will be able to work those hours as they will be able to access child care.
Two people in employment.
Less cost to the tax payer
More contribution.

Either childcare costs or housing costs need to come down. Surely it can't carry on this way?

At this rate, in 20 years time with our ageing population surely we are going to be left with houses flooding the market with no buyers. What will happen then? My Gran died 4 years ago and her lovely penthouse flat only sold 18 months ago.

Yeah, cheers for that, rabbit, I think froggy's got the tumbleweed rolling out shortly...

I do hope that was sarcasm rabbity

Linerunner .

Thekidsrule, no, I haven't.

Froggy, of course I read your post. You paid into a system and you got made redundant. I get it. So now you get enough to live on, you get your child's education, you get healthcare, you get your rubbish taken away, you have access to a police or fire service if you need it, what more do you want?

Clearly you havent, I didn't say I wanted anything apart from a job.

Do you not get your child's education, healthcare, refuse collected and access to police or fire service too then?

What do we want.

Democracy.

When do we want it.

When we've finished doing 90% of the worlds's work for 10% of the world's wealth, if it's all right with everyone. Yay.

Really, kitchenroll, unless you live in a bubble you've had access to and enjoyed many services, too.

I'm assuming you are a parent, though, tbh.

Of course I do. Because I pay into the system too.

I understand you want a job, but no ones going to hand it to you on a plate.

If you had the free or heavily subsidised childcare that this country so badly needs then maybe you would find it easier.

I'm not saying you should get nothing FFS, I'm just saying you shouldn't end up with more than what people who work get, and you shouldn't get more than you need to have a basic standard of living.

Our pet costs us quite a lot of money in that we have to make sure we put money aside for him to make sure we always have it there if we need to claim on the insurance, or when he needs vaccinations. It's a cost we actually have to budget for because if we didnt, we wouldnt have money available to get him those basic things, and our household has two people working. I don't see how you can afford the same when you don't work, that's all.

Going to walk my dog and calm down for a few mins I think.

My pet, yes.

Karma is a bitch Kitchenroll and I hope it never bites you.

Now i'm going for a walk, with my pet, who hasn't been rehomed, since I was made redundant.

Can she have a pet mouse? or a pet snail?

What about a pet worm?