to think its not that benefits are too HIGH, its that the minimum / average wage is too LOW.

[MistyMountainHop]

inspired by a load of recent threads about benefits (which may or may not be bullshit a bit of a stretching of the truth) and lots of mnetters (and a lot of the general public) up in arms about people choosing to be on benefits rather than work and that benefits are too high

well i think that the average wage is too LOW and vastly disproportionate to the cost of living. when people can "earn" more for NOT going to work than they can working then something is badly wrong. and i have been on benefits (single parent) abou 5 years ago and its SHIT. me and dc were POOR. i certainly didnt have this fictitious daily-mail benefits lifestyle with lots of spare cash, luxuries etc. hell no. i had enough to cover my rent and bills with a bit of change to feed me and dc. but if i had have worked at that time i would have probably only managed to get a minimum wage job which would have been pretty much the same as what i was receiving anyway. so shoot me, i decided i didn't want to work because it just wasnt worth it. (disclaimer for any dm readers: i do work now and have done for a while and now married and dh works too so no benefits apart from a little bit of tcs)

i know people on min or very low wage get "topped up" with tax credits and all that shit etc but IMO there is something really wrong with the world when people can work full time and still need financial help from the government to pay their rent and bills.

so surely in the final analysis its not that benefits pay too much, its that employment pays too little?

i am not very good at getting my point across so i hope this makes sense! but this was just something me and my friends were having a drunken conversation about at the weekend. and thought i would put it to the aibu jury :o

Just those that are able to work but don't for whatever reason Mme Lindor.

and you bog roll, dont need to keep banging on about how benefit claimants shouldn't have pets or cars...

But still you do!

I guess that makes us even.

Its all your fishes fault that this country is in such a mess froggy , so think on

Err, yeah. That's where the converstaion went after what the OP wrote. People kept addressing me, so I kept answering. That's what people tend to do on chat threads

do you like pets Iuse

Do you want them all for yourself?

Your crusade is so unusual...

IUseTooMuchKitchenRoll - surely pets are part of the family. Why not take the kids as well while you're at it. Less benefits and they won't grow up in these horrible feckless families.

I cant think on usual. Because i'm unemployed...the unemployed dont have thoughts, we dont have the brain power. We just breed.

and have pets

Iuse thought of a good job for you ...the pet snatcher!

Benefit offices could inform you when people fall on hard times, and you could pay them a visit with a nice big net!

I love pets, but one is enough thanks. We couldn't afford anymore on mine and DHs wages anyway.

What a crap system.
I am so sorry that it is made so difficult for the genuinely ill.
I do not mind contributing to the pets and holidays or flat screens of disabled people at all.
No, not being sarcastic.
As long as once you claim benefit you do not have more children you should get supported in a comfortable life.

Why dint you both get better jobs then kitchenroll??

KitchenRoll

Ok, so only those who are able to work but don't work for whatever reason.

How does the government decide who falls into this category?

And what about those who, like Froggy, have lost their jobs?

It is not that simple.

And again. We cannot and should not take economic independence from any citizen.

Where does that stop? Can we decide that anyone who receives child benefit has to buy free range organic eggs? Or is not allowed to buy pom bears? Why don't we ban pensioners from buying chocolates, it is not good for their health. They can buy fruit instead.

We give the benefits to the people who are seen to be in need of that assistance and allow them to make the decision on what to spend that money on.

Thats a shame KR, I could afford all mine on minimum wage.

Does it make you feel better about yourselves to have go at someone just because they have a different opinion on the benefits system?

Wierd if so?

Economic independence? Absolutely! And along with that goes economic responsibility. Or at least it should.

Not having a go at you, KitchenRoll.

You are expressing your opinion, others are expressing their opinion.

Does it make you feel better to reduce someone to tears because they are trying their hardest to find another job when they have to listen to your kind of SHIT nearly every day of their lives?

Kitchen roll .

I think it's not all black and white .

Not everyone who is depressed should have pets , not what I said at all .

And yes there are other ways to teach kids responsibility.

But getting rid of loved family pets because the family has lost work , just seems heartless cold and unfeeling. Pets are not disposable . To teach that is just wrong .

And what would happen to these abandoned animals ? Pet shelters are already stretched and often have to put these animals down. .

So a pets is disposable. . . Nice .
( Btw most psychopaths have cruelty issues with animals , serial killers are known to start killing animals and progress to people, not on topic ... Off on a tangent)

I have to take issue with this: You stated you wouldn't care for kids well to me that means you would turn down a job because you do not want to do that type of work. Why should you have a choice?

I do not want someone entrusted with the care of my precious children for 8 or 9 hours a day, for which I am paying a significant sum of money, to be someone who is forced into working there or starving. Childcare, even the low-status nursery worker, is a vocation and it is massively undervalued. The only people who should be doing it are those who have a calling for it. The futures of our children depend on it.

Hey froggy, you still still got that tumbleweed for the rabbity one?

Cox was nice on BBC 2.

Actually you couldn't 'turn down a job' being a childminder anyway. CMs are self-employed and have to have very specific training and registration and follow the Early Years path.

I got plenty of tumbleweed here

So where does that leave me then? I had my first 3 dc when I was the main wage earner, earning £50K pa. Could no longer do my old job as it was barred to me by law due to my epilepsy, couldn't afford to retrain. Ex-P continued to work in his low-paid jobs, the best one earning £16.8K pa. We as a family had no choice but to claim Tax Credits. Due to epilepsy meds affecting the effectiveness of my contraception (makes the body metabolise it quicker), I fell pregnant again. Should I have terminated? Because there was NFW that was going to happen. To me, a baby is a baby from the moment of conception. We struggled on, now as a family of 6 instead of 5. Then my Ex-P walked out on me when our youngest was 4mo.

What now? Should I have put all 4 of my dc in care, rather than claim Income Support? I have treid to find work, but it is physically impossible when you have a 13yo with Autism, that you do not get any disability benefits for, that is not safe to be left at home alone, and you just CANNOT FIND ANY Childcarer willing to look after her. As far as the DWP are concerned, if she is turned down for DLA, then I am not a Carer. Doesn't stop me from having to actually BE a Carer though.

And no, I don't have any pets. Christ, I can barely afford to keep Gas and Electric on the meter, do the food shopping and pay the bus fares to school. Pets and a holiday are a luxury beyond me, probably EVER. My 13yo DD and my 9yo DS1 last went on holiday over 8 YEARS ago. My 8yo DS2 has NEVER been on holiday.

And before you ask why I have the internet - it's because a family member pays it for me, because the dc need it for their homework. I get the use of it during the day and in the evenings after they go to bed, granted, but it is paid for for their homework. Without the net, too, I would be staring at 4 walls day in day out going slowly insane. At which point, I would be unable to care for my dc, and they would have to go into care, costing the Government £+++, because two of them have SN.

I'm thinking about not turning down the job of Professor of Astrophysics at Manchester University when I don't get offered it.

I agree pets are not disposable. I didn't mean the pets thing to turn into such a huge issue, but like I said, I know how much our pet costs and I am surprised and a little shocked that someone on unemployment benefits can afford one.

Froggy, if I have said anything that would reduce you to tears, I apologise for that. I do not intend to hurt anyone just because I have a certain view on the benefits system. My opinion is not shit, it is as valid as yours because the system is mine as much as it is yours.

No one is forced to read the many benefits threads on MN, I hide the threads that I know will upset me.

I think that 'The ExP walked out' is something that no-one can ever plan for or sadly prevent.

It saddens me, huntycat that those left picking up the pieces are required to invest 100% of their time and income into the family, whereas the absent one even if they get 'caught' contribute a capped percentage of 20% of income after certain deductions; and are not required to contribute any time should they choose not to.